EV alternatives

DoubleChevron said:
I'm not looking at this from an environment view... rather an "anti-stupidity" view. They have been chatting about this on the land rover forum too. (there is members there that have electric converted land rovers .... so not anti-electric).



This is what I think will happen with most that buy an electric vehicle. The next issue is insurance companies don't want to touch them, accident repair businesses don't want to touch them... wreckers don't want to touch them. They are going to be some exotic, hard to get rid of environmental nightmares when there batteries die.

Until there is a new battery technology... electric cars just will not be wanted by most once they have owned one I imagine .... and its cost them an arm and a leg in depreciation and disposal/insurance costs.
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Still does my head in that people still think the batteries are waste and that last like a phone battery…

Insurance companies are writing off repairable Teslas because of the way they’re built with big cast assemblies and because Tesla are not great at making parts readily available. But any battery and motor is quickly sold as they’re highly sought after items.

No car battery goes to landfill, that’s just dumb… Even after their second life, they’re recycled as they contain valuable materials for making new batteries.
 
DoubleChevron said:
I'm not looking at this from an environment view... rather an "anti-stupidity" view. They have been chatting about this on the land rover forum too. (there is members there that have electric converted land rovers .... so not anti-electric).



This is what I think will happen with most that buy an electric vehicle. The next issue is insurance companies don't want to touch them, accident repair businesses don't want to touch them... wreckers don't want to touch them. They are going to be some exotic, hard to get rid of environmental nightmares when there batteries die.

Until there is a new battery technology... electric cars just will not be wanted by most once they have owned one I imagine .... and its cost them an arm and a leg in depreciation and disposal/insurance costs.
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Bit like a 2nd hand fridge or washing machine? There is a glut of used EVs coming from off company leases in the UK, and on average take 3 times longer to sell at auction than an equivalent ICE car. In the meantime they transport them back and forth on diesel trucks. Like here, the UK government offers huge tax incentives for companies to lease BEVs over ICE. 3 years later all the poor people (that don't get any incentives) are then meant to snap them up at auction?
Like NZ are implementing, how long before they whack a "carbon penalty" on new and used ICE vehicle purchases here, ($7K on new and $3500 on used in NZ). Eventually many people won't be enable to afford either option (BEV or ICE).
Maybe that's the plan?
 
Haakon said:
Still does my head in that people still think the batteries are waste and that last like a phone battery…

Insurance companies are writing off repairable Teslas because of the way they’re built with big cast assemblies and because Tesla are not great at making parts readily available. But any battery and motor is quickly sold as they’re highly sought after items.

No car battery goes to landfill, that’s just dumb… Even after their second life, they’re recycled as they contain valuable materials for making new batteries.
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There are battery giga-factories making the things, there are no battery recycling giga-factories.
This is off Lithium Australia's website, but what would they know, they sound like a bunch of tin foil hat wearers to to me.🤷‍♂️

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Haakon said:
Still does my head in that people still think the batteries are waste and that last like a phone battery…

Insurance companies are writing off repairable Teslas because of the way they’re built with big cast assemblies and because Tesla are not great at making parts readily available. But any battery and motor is quickly sold as they’re highly sought after items.

No car battery goes to landfill, that’s just dumb… Even after their second life, they’re recycled as they contain valuable materials for making new batteries.
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Everyone says they are recycled ... .Where ?? .... No-one is recycling car batteries. Its toxic and dangerous work.

I fear they will be "recycled" like all the household recycling. ie: stored in big warehouses, the companies go "bust" leaving us with countless tons of "recycling" that has nowhere to go other than landfill. and we foot the bill again to dipose of it (the "bust" companies having moved all the money offshore).

It doesn't take much imagination to see thousands of electric vehicles "stored" in a storage yard for "recycling" .... and at some point in the next decade or so one of the thousands of batteries torches itself and sets fire to the other tens of thousands of batteries "to be recycled"... Then we have one of the biggest environmental tragedies since the atomic bomb. An incredible fire that can't be put out ... and is spewing toxic fumes into air. You know, and bit like all the warehouse "fires" in melbourne where chemicals are being "accidently" burnt.

seeya,
Shane L.
 
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Thank goodness we are on top of recycling plastics and used tyres anyway.👍👍

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Haakon said:
And Chinese made is bit weird. China is one of the best countries for renewables powered industries.
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Maybe look past their energy mix as their only contribution to environmental damage?
Like 250 million tons of industrial waste illegally dumped into the Yangtze River every year?
There are 45,000 factories along that river, guess what some of them make?
As you like to say "Google it".
 
Just a correction to post #28.
The waste flowing into the Yangtze is actually 25 BILLION tons per year.
Source: Energy Future.

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Haakon said:
Why? I don’t really care what you think and am ok to leave you to it ;)
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No worries, don't blame you, however I'm not going to waste my time looking for non-existent industrial scale EV li-ion battery recycling plants on Google either.🧐
 
Greenpeace said:
No worries, don't blame you, however I'm not going to waste my time looking for non-existent industrial scale EV li-ion battery recycling plants on Google either.🧐
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Feel free to enjoy blissful ignorance ;) I know its a safe space for some.

But do look up logical fallacies and how to avoid them :) I think you'll benefit from that.
 
DoubleChevron said:
if you are really interested.

www.bbc.com

Electric cars: What will happen to all the dead batteries?

In the next 10 years millions of old electric car batteries will need to be recycled or discarded.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

bottom line, they are too expensive and labour intensive to recycle.
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Yes I researched the subject a little while ago.
Other than painstakingly dismantling them, the other options being trialled and/or utilised on a small scale were pyrometallurgy and hydrometallurgy.
Pyrometallurgy= burn or heat the sh#t out of it sometimes with fossil fuels.
Hydrometallurgy= dissolve the sh#t out of it with toxic chemicals, sulphuric acid is normally the first step.
Also current pyrometallurgy techniques do not recover lithium from the black mass.🤷‍♂️
There is an Indured reactor that supposedly will be able to recover 90% of lithium from the black mass, but like most things connected to the subject, it's a "concept".

If and when full scale EV li-ion battery recycling eventuates, I bet finding out the true energy costs of doing so will be "secret squirrel sh#t".

I sincerely hope in 20 years time there's a flourishing, environmentally sound, energy efficient, EV li-ion battery recycling industry that is comfortably keeping up with demand.
But if I were a betting man.......................
 
The whole idea of "storing Hydrogen" or piping it from one place to another (like methane or other hydrocarbon gas) needs LOTS of explanation (or basic chemistry and physics knowledge) by politicians or environmental "scientists".....
There are not many affordable ways to contain hydrogen in ANY container..... it's so tiny it just leaks through plastics and into and through metals, destroying the properties in the process.
If you were to fill the hydrogen tank in your fuel cell car up and then went on holidays, your tank will be empty when you get back home :(
The whole concept of using existing gas pipe networks for hyrogen is so ludicrous to be funny.....
 
jhovel said:
The whole idea of "storing Hydrogen" or piping it from one place to another (like methane or other hydrocarbon gas) needs LOTS of explanation (or basic chemistry and physics knowledge) by politicians or environmental "scientists".....
There are not many affordable ways to contain hydrogen in ANY container..... it's so tiny it just leaks through plastics and into and through metals, destroying the properties in the process.
If you were to fill the hydrogen tank in your fuel cell car up and then went on holidays, your tank will be empty when you get back home :(
The whole concept of using existing gas pipe networks for hyrogen is so ludicrous to be funny.....
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Plus there is the whole embrittlement issue ;)
 
Funnily enough the coal derived town gas that was pumped for decades into towns all over the UK and Europe contained up to 60% hydrogen.
Now when someone suggests pumping even a 10% blend of hydrogen with natural gas into the existing infrastructure it's going to trigger Armageddon.🤔
 
Greenpeace said:
Funnily enough the coal derived town gas that was pumped for decades into towns all over the UK and Europe contained up to 60% hydrogen.
Now when someone suggests pumping even a 10% blend of hydrogen with natural gas into the existing infrastructure it's going to trigger Armageddon.🤔
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Do you not understand why..? Huh. Not sure why you think comparing 19th century systems to current gas networks is relevant.
 
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