problems with AL4 automatic gearbox in a 2004 206 1.4

The buzzing sound is the oil pressure regulator solenoid valve. The sound is normal and also the reason why they fail...they do a lot of work. There is no pressure regulating in neutral or park.
I agree with everyone else, if you have no oil pressure and you have no drive, then it must have something to do with the oil pump. Either directly or indirectly (pump or torque converter).
The outer shell of the torque converter transmits power from the engine to the oil pump...constantly, while the engine is running. I do not know how the torque converter is coupled to the pump (in the AL4) so I can not comment on a failure mode.
Here is some propaganda on the AL4 on youtube. Unfortunately it's in french (of course)
As stated, it could be a lot of things but, logically, you would start with some condition that you could have "altered" with your maintenance.
 
This is the Peugeot how-to for refitting the AL4 gearbox. The retaining bar [3] was first fitted at removal. (The removal instructions number the various fixings which are referred to at the bottom of the page)

fitting.png
 
Hmm would these manuals help you;
https://idoc.pub/documents/al4-dpo-transmission-rebuild-manual-6klzgr2omyng
another document with section drawings.
https://manualzz.com/doc/22435126/citroen-citroen-al4-automatic-transmission-service-manual
When fitting the torque converter to the gearbox there are 3 concentric drives that need to be lined up and fitted correctly. The oil pump drive sleeve, the spline for the stator torque reaction, the torque converter main drive spline. So a bit complicated to ensure it is all done correctly.
"@dimistyle what does that table mean?" that table is to work out what clutches and bands and gears are engaged and driving in each gear, to enable you to know where to look for problems. But no pressure is really the first problem for you !! It will never be able to engage any drive clutch or band with no pressure.
Good luck jaahn
 
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i did a quick check of the wiring, everything seems to be in order. And since I have no drive in ANY gear I guess that also means I have no oil pressure, and the sensor is actually correct reading zero bar :( I guess it is definitely engine out to troubleshoot the oil pomp itself :( Thanks once again for all the help everyone, will report back.
 
I suppose you can trust the sensor is correct. There is a test port where you can fit a pressure gauge.
But is it worth checking that the oil is still there up to level. A small possibility it has been pumped out on the ground or the cooler is leaking and it is in the engine coolant. The pump pickup will be uncovered if the level is down about a liter or so, and does not mean the transmission has lost all its fluid. Worth checking again before you pull the transmission out.
I guess you read the instructions about how to check the level with the engine running ?
Jaahn
 
That would mean I lost 4 liters in 5km of driving, without any trace of the oil... I have no oily underside of the car or anything. And it did run for over 30 minutes on axle stands, with no oil loss whatsoever. 4 liters of extra fluid in the engine coolant would be something I would deffo notice ;) I found a working AL4 close to me for a 100 euros, so will pick up that, so have to remove the engine anyway.
 
From the same model? AL4s are not all the same. While the gear set may be common in a lot of them, the final drive ratio and converter specs changed by application. Check before assuming it's the same gearbox. If you are separating the engine and gearbox, remember to unbolt the converter from the drive plate before sliding the gearbox away from the block. Get the drive plate too in case you have damaged yours. It will probably want new bolts to hold the driveplate to the crankshaft in addition to the nuts retaining the converter.
 
thanks for the tips. It's an AL4 from a 306, asking about the car's specs right now. If I did really crack the oil pump, I could just switch over only the oil pump I guess?
 
Doing a dump run of old AL4 parts, had 2 oil pumps in a bucket, out they go with all the other used AL4 parts, looks like I only needed the big O ring

Box does not need to be split open but needs to be out of the car. Make sure lube the O ring otherwise it gets torn when refitting. Damage may have occurred on the inside of the pump, needs to be opened to investigate. Mark all the screws and retorque al per assembly instructions
1000033025.jpg
 
I can now also get a full 206cc (same build year as our own 206) with the al4 autobox, that will probably be exactly the same unit as we have right? only difference is that's a 1.6 and we have a 1.4...
 
Again match the part number on the LHS wheel side, know as rear cover. The stamped number needs to be the same as if the internal gearing is different from what I have heard the ECU will give errors and throw into limp mode as revs won't match what ECU is expecting
 
the "new" 206 will come complete with the gearbox ecu with it, so even if it is different, having the right gearbox ecu present should fix any issues I run into? I don't think I can check the numbers beforehand, and It's a 6 hour roundtrip to pick it up! I'm going to risk it, and If it doesn't work out I can always mix and match parts (oil pump for instance) to get me a working car again...
The reason I want to swap everything into our current car by the way, is that we run on lpg (propane), and it makes it insanely much cheaper to run. In 3 months of buying gasoline we would already be equal costs of the whole donor 206 plus buying lpg!
 
well, picked up the 206cc yesterday, some good news and some bad news. The car has a broken front right spring, which is why it was undrivable and for sale. I have a donor 206 here so that's no problem. The car has 1 small dent on the left front fender. It's also the 109 hp 1.6 16v engine, and it is actually in great condition! So I'm not going to pull it apart for the al4, but just fix er up and sell er on again... Saturday I'll try to see what's up with our own al4.
 
Haakon said:
Does sound like the converter wasn’t engaged into the pump properly…

Looks like the transmission and/or engine is coming back out again!

You “might” get lucky if you can undo the converter from the drive plate and see if you can push it back and engage it, but I’m tipping you’ve damaged the oil pump. What’s probably happened is you didn’t engage the two tabs on the converter with the pump, and the tabs jammed against the pump drive. The drive plate has enough flex in it that it allowed the trans to be bolted up the engine (did the pull the bellhousing onto the engine block using the bolts?) and the friction gave the pump enough drive for a little while. Then it broke…
Click to expand...
unfortunately you were right on the damage, and very close on the cause, cracked the oil pump when I initially misaligned the shaft :( Now, need to decide if I try to find a secondhand gearbox, or buy a new oilpump... there is also some damage to the shaft thingy from the torque converter, and also on the oilpump cover. If a new oilpump comes with a cover at least that part is covered...
What would you guys do? Hard to come by a 2nd hand 206 1.4 al4 over here :)
It also seems I do need to split the box to get to the oilpump, judging by the pictures @dimistyle posted!

(ps, the 206cc I picked up was too good to scrap, so fixed the front suspension and driving it till I fix the other 206)
 

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Split the bell housing side off only, this OP had the same issue. We all tried to help him but ....🙉 Torque settings I think was also shared in this post and the AL4 repair manual.

Any AL4 oil pump will do, part no# listed in post as well for a replacement. I believe you have the skills to replace successfully. Not sure if you have a torque converter rebuilder close that could recondition yours as this is also bound to go at any time especially if box was not looked after.

AL4 gearbox problems

That's the box stuffed then, it's even worse today. Would something like this drop straight in or would I have to change anything to make it work? http://bit.ly/1jBXTuC From what I can tell, all AL4/DPO are the same apart from final drive ratios and bellhousings (and assorted detail...
www.aussiefrogs.com
 
ah, the bellhouse is not splitting the box, gotcha ;) on the hunt for another al4 then! Torque converter rebuilders dont exist here unfortunately... We're not really an auto country. I did locate a 106 with the 1.4 and an autobox, hopefully that's something... The would be donor 206cc also has issues with the autobox :(
 
Hi well some progress and a bit of learning :oops:
For what it is worth Renault also used the AL4 box and called it a DPO. Fitted to Scenics, Megans, Clios etc 1990s and well into the next decade when they started to change to later engines and DSG box. Possibly they might be easier to get there. The oil pump would be the same I think and the diff ratios and torque converter etc would be not be very different if similar engine and car size. I believe there were only a couple of variation anyway.
Good luck
;)
 
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