Don't do it! If the quality is anything like that of the chinese lawn mower my sister bought, you'd be lucky to even get it fitted without something breaking off!
Cheers
Alec
Water Pump Rebuilding
- Thread starter addo
- Start date
Don't do it! If the quality is anything like that of the chinese lawn mower my sister bought, you'd be lucky to even get it fitted without something breaking off!
Cheers
Alec
I've got Taiwanese balljoints made by a factory stood next to rice paddies (have looked it up on Google Street view) and they're fine. Have also used plenty of the Chinese sourced AL4 solenoids off AliExpress without grief.
Anyway, this week's "pressies" will be new exhaust bits and hopefully (weekend) reseal the cam covers. Water pump is a controlled leak, whereas the top radiator hose is a time bomb.
Anyway, this week's "pressies" will be new exhaust bits and hopefully (weekend) reseal the cam covers. Water pump is a controlled leak, whereas the top radiator hose is a time bomb.
I seized a passing opportunity. Used V-blocks in a press, with pump sunny side up pushed the pulley down onto the casting first, then pushed the shaft through the pulley, then the bearing shell out of the casting with impeller still attached. Casting will clean up nicely. 
The OEM shaft/bearing assembly is made by Koyo. I don't yet have a part number for them. It's rooted from water ingress. FAG bearing is apparently W2431-SS (availability poor) with the caveat of not having yet removed the impeller to confirm shaft diameter - just used sliding calipers. Getting these numbers right when you are somewhat dyslexic can be a real mongrel.
There is (was?) a mechanical seal at the impeller back; its rubber bellows failed and wasted away. The rotating seal face (not the static part, the dynamic section) is also no longer bonded to its backing.
Overall, I want to make two points. First I forgot to post this thread in the Pond (sorry David!) but secondly it gives much hope to the idea of salvaging an expensive part from failed units. "We" only need a spec and P/N for the carbon face mechanical seal and it's close to sorted.
The OEM shaft/bearing assembly is made by Koyo. I don't yet have a part number for them. It's rooted from water ingress. FAG bearing is apparently W2431-SS (availability poor) with the caveat of not having yet removed the impeller to confirm shaft diameter - just used sliding calipers. Getting these numbers right when you are somewhat dyslexic can be a real mongrel.
There is (was?) a mechanical seal at the impeller back; its rubber bellows failed and wasted away. The rotating seal face (not the static part, the dynamic section) is also no longer bonded to its backing.
Overall, I want to make two points. First I forgot to post this thread in the Pond (sorry David!) but secondly it gives much hope to the idea of salvaging an expensive part from failed units. "We" only need a spec and P/N for the carbon face mechanical seal and it's close to sorted.
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I seized a passing opportunity. Used V-blocks in a press, with pump sunny side up pushed the pulley down onto the casting first, then pushed the shaft through the pulley, then the bearing shell out of the casting with impeller still attached. Casting will clean up nicely.
The OEM shaft/bearing assembly is made by Koyo. I don't yet have a part number for them. It's rooted from water ingress. FAG bearing is apparently W2431-SS (availability poor) with the caveat of not having yet removed the impeller to confirm shaft diameter - just used sliding calipers. Getting these numbers right when you are somewhat dyslexic can be a real mongrel.
There is (was?) a mechanical seal at the impeller back; its rubber bellows failed and wasted away. The rotating seal face (not the static part, the dynamic section) is also no longer bonded to its backing.
Overall, I want to make two points. First I forgot to post this thread in the Pond (sorry David!) but secondly it gives much hope to the idea of salvaging an expensive part from failed units. "We" only need a spec and P/N for the carbon face mechanical seal and it's close to sorted.
Good work there Addo. Just need to get those bearings and seals off that shaft and hunt down the numbers on them.
Another way is to find some off the shelf bearings and seals that will fit without any machining to the housing.
Col
The bearing looks like it is a conventional type and all going well the seal should be too - always happy when people try a fix - if it works great if it doesn't then you have learned something. A pug should have used available off shelf parts. The early Japanese cars were a bit of a nightmare as they used many strange sized components and shafts made to a size they had available.
Well done Addo, keep on persevering!!
Ken
will watch this re-build addo, i have a old xm pump that had a small leak from the seal,
will get to a press and pop it apart,also i think the reno pump has a different offset pulley but if so it would only
need a 605-xm one pressed on.
like you said they are hard to get and expensive, but i see the later 24valve ones are cheap and easy to get.
will get to a press and pop it apart,also i think the reno pump has a different offset pulley but if so it would only
need a 605-xm one pressed on.
like you said they are hard to get and expensive, but i see the later 24valve ones are cheap and easy to get.
Is the bearing that long thing in front of the impeller?
Yes, it will have two rows of ball in it, the rest is open space (presumably once full of grease). There's no weepage or pressure equalisation holes in the shell, although the casting has both.
Shaft dimensions are:
The stepped seal has a reduced diameter equal to the bearing shell, outer diameter (unverified yet) about 37mm. Its assembled height is approximately 20mm.
I possess no ideas of propriety about what's posted here, and would be delighted if someone else felt like chipping in with bearing sources or seal options.
Shaft dimensions are:
105mm tip to tip
25mm shaft protrusion to tip, pulley side
15.92mm shaft diameter, pulley side
30mm shell OD
38.75mm shell length
45.47mm shaft protrusion to tip, impeller side
12.04mm shaft diameter, impeller side
42.16mm length, reduced section for impeller
25mm shaft protrusion to tip, pulley side
15.92mm shaft diameter, pulley side
30mm shell OD
38.75mm shell length
45.47mm shaft protrusion to tip, impeller side
12.04mm shaft diameter, impeller side
42.16mm length, reduced section for impeller
The stepped seal has a reduced diameter equal to the bearing shell, outer diameter (unverified yet) about 37mm. Its assembled height is approximately 20mm.
I possess no ideas of propriety about what's posted here, and would be delighted if someone else felt like chipping in with bearing sources or seal options.
I am not sure I understand the seal construction.
These are about the best examples I can find without dismantling.
Automotive Pump Seals,automotive water pump seal Manufacturers Factory in china
Automotive Pump Seals,automotive water pump seal Manufacturers Factory in china
It's very like the old pumps we fogies used to re-seal every couple of years and occasionally had to re-bearing. Smart buggers use to fix 'em before the bearing went. (Morries, Landies, etc etc). They still use a similar carbon seal in some non-auto water pump casings, so pump repairers might just know a source that fits if the auto people can't come up with one. One would hope that PSA used a standard part, but if they could save even 1c per unit being special, they would do that.
Hi Addo
Can you see any numbers on the bearing & seals. You can put the numbers into Google and sometimes find what you are looking for.
Can you see any numbers on the bearing & seals. You can put the numbers into Google and sometimes find what you are looking for.
Just thinking aloud...
I wonder if there is a pump/seal kit for another vehicle/marque that can provided a donor seal. Finding the vehicle will be the issue .
The mob in the link mayl want to sell a few hundred/thousand.
You may find a donor pump with a suitable seal at a price that is practical to sacrifice it.
You could always ask for a sample for extended testing in your road lab.
All those possibilities had crossed my mind! I'd also thought of requesting a contact point for a volume purchaser or stocking agent.
Some good advice came from Citroënfan; request engineering dwgs from the supplier just to be sure of suitability.
The good thing about this problem is it doesn't require such an urgent fix as the alternator! I will be asking for help from the DK5ATE engine crowd, this is the "big four" diesel of the PRV's era and I would put a good amount of faith in the pump shafts being compatible.
I'd also thought of requesting a contact point for a volume purchaser or stocking agent. Some good advice came from Citroënfan; request engineering dwgs from the supplier just to be sure of suitability.
The good thing about this problem is it doesn't require such an urgent fix as the alternator! I will be asking for help from the DK5ATE engine crowd, this is the "big four" diesel of the PRV's era and I would put a good amount of faith in the pump shafts being compatible.
