Turbo 12?

A

Azure

Member
Fellow Frogger
Joined
May 14, 2002
Messages
42
Location
Melbourne
Bonjour!

Well ... I just got myself a spare renault 12 wagon with an extra gearbox and engine as spares. Was wondering if the 12 engine would go well with a turbo? Why do I ask?? Well I currently already own a 12 sedan which I drive around ... and it would so love a bit more power. Any tips for such a crazy project?

By the way ... have to say I love the forum! Nice to have found so many french car enthusiasts.

8_ball

Azure
 
The series 2, east-west engined, Renault 5 (Super 5, or Super Cinq) was available with a turbo charged version of the R12 1397cc engine. It even used a similar Weber carburetor! The Renault 9 turbo also had this engine. The front wheel drive R5 turbo (as opposed to the earlier mid-engined rear wheel drive version) was a popular performance hatch in Europe in the late 80's, so the old 1.4 R12 engine must be pretty well suited to turbocharging.

Dave
 
Justin Eckersley at Alpine motors in Phillip ACT has built a 12 Turbo and as far aas I know still owns it.

If I remember rightly he stuck an 18 motor in the thing and built the turbo system around that.

Talking to him might be a good place to start.
 
Just found the specs for the Super 5 GT Turbo. 120hp and 165Nm isn't bad from a carby turbo 1.4 litre. It's in French, but easy to understand:

CARACTERISTIQUES
Moteur: 4 cylindres en ligne 8s,
carburateur + turbo
Cylindrée: 1397 cm3
Puissance: 120 ch à 5 750tr/mn
Couple: 165 Nm à 3750 tr/mn
Transmission: AV BVM5
Poids: 865 Kg
Pneumatiques: 195/55 R 13
PERFORMANCES
Vitesse maxi: 204 KM/H
1000m D.A: 28s9
80 à 120 KM/H (5è): 9s6
CONSOMMATION
Ville/route/mixte: 8.7/7.7/9.5 L/100KM

I got it from this webpage:
<a href="http://auto.sport.free.fr/renault/r5gtt.htm" target="_blank">http://auto.sport.free.fr/renault/r5gtt.htm</a>
 
Many years ago in a 1972 Wheels magazine there was a crowd that had fitted a turbo to an R12 Sierra motor, reportedly 120bhp from memory. But there would be all the usual tuning and reliability problems associated with turbo's. I'm not really keen on them especially as an aftermarket fitting mainly due to the tuning hassles, and on/off nature of turbo's.

The later (12XL and 1.4) Sierra's had larger main and crank bearings, this being the block that was the basis for the 5 Turbo and GT Turbo. So these would be the better bet for a conversion. But don't forget that a turbo, if used to its full extent will place a lot of stress on a stock 12 driveline.

Really though, it would be much easier and more reliable to fit a side draft Weber/Dellorto and Lynx manifold, phone this guy he is organising replica manifolds and extractors with cams to suit and can supply a Dellorto carby, Rob Mekenkamp on 0417 363 665. He is in Melbourne to so nice and close for people who live there.

Alternatively, there is the previously suggested 15/17 engine conversion, or find a 5 Alpine head, fit twin Webers and replica 8G alloy rocker cover to fit to a 1.4 block.

Really the sky is the limit is money is no object.

Simon
 
Thanks for the comments ... Well, my driving renault has a 1.4 in it, and I think the other 2 are 1.3's. I wasn't too sure about turbo's, and I guess replacing the manifolds, extractors and carby would be a much cleaner job. Simon, do you know how much of an improvement this would make to performance compared to a turbo?

Unfortunately I think the 1.4 has a bit of knocking when you put your foot down ... and it doesn't take much. But other than that, it's in good condition. And one of the sparkplug threadings have been worn through on the 1.3 in the wagon.

I'll try and contact Rob ... Anyone have a spare 5 Alpine head? :eek: )

Azure
 
Azure:
I wasn't too sure about turbo's, and I guess replacing the manifolds, extractors and carby would be a much cleaner job. Simon, do you know how much of an improvement this would make to performance compared to a turbo?
Click to expand...
I drove a R12 1.4 litre fitted with a Lynx cross over manifold with a 45mm DCOE Weber, as well as a wilder cam and modified head (exhaust manifold was standard). The torque this engine had was amazing. Very impressive. I actually think it went better than the R17TL engined 12 wagon that I drove a week earlier.

From what I've read the cross over manifolds are designed for good low to mid range performance, but are no good for 6000rpm+ competition engines, since they run out of breathing capacity. They are EXCELLENT for road cars though.

Dave
 
The car at Alpine Motors has now been detuned by removing the turbo. Its now a stocker again!

ipb :D
 
Azure:
Simon, do you know how much of an improvement this would make to performance compared to a turbo?

Azure
Click to expand...
No idea, as I've not compared both conversions. In terms or reliability and simplicity of setting the cars up the Big Carby/Manifold/Extractors is probably the better bet. It would give a useful increase in power but not the light switch increase in power of a turbo which reduces driveline reliability due to shock loadings etc.

Simon
 
Howdy Azure, and welcome :)

By knocking in your 1.4 you mean big/small ends or pinging? If you mean pinging, try premium unleaded and an additive with the stock, or slightly advanced, timing. It made my 12 like a different car - brilliant. Runs better than it ever did, even on leaded.

Stuey
 
Hi Stuey,

Yes ... I think it's pinging. Basically, when it starts pinging, I lose power and have to ease off the accelerator ... quite annoying up hills, it doesn't take much.

So it's safe to use premium unleaded in the car as long as I put additive in it? What about regular unleaded and additive?

Just filled up the tank today ... will have to wait until next week before trying it out. Thanks!!

shy

Azure

Stuey:


If you mean pinging, try premium unleaded and an additive with the stock, or slightly advanced, timing. It made my 12 like a different car - brilliant. Runs better than it ever did, even on leaded.

Stuey
Click to expand...
 
Im in a similar situation Azure. Ive got a Fuego with hot cam but i realise that nothings gonna raise more horsies than a blow dryer :D

Ive got a friend that works for European Parts Import in Box Hill, Melbourne. The owner has one of those old ugly Peugeots with a tray on the back (what a work horse!) with the same engine as mine (Peugeot 505 and Renault Fuego both used same lump, right everyone?) only he's turboing it. I was thinking of following suit until i found out about the R21 turbo engine (same as mine but turboed and injected). Now i just need capital!

But anyway you might like to givem a buzz. The last time i went around for a geeza they had got a custom manifold for the turbo made. Seems they are serious.. approve

I think its fantastic to see people putting turbo's in their Renaults. After all, we are the pioneers and we were called 'yellow teapots' for years before Jean-Pierre Jabouile showed the world what a Renault fitted with a garret turbo-charger could do tongue
 
renaulturbo:
After all, we are the pioneers and we were called 'yellow teapots' for years before Jean-Pierre Jabouile showed the world what a Renault fitted with a garret turbo-charger could do tongue
Click to expand...
Yes, blow up quite spectacularly! :)

Interesting to note that Renault's success with F1 came with normally aspirated engines rather than the turbo's.

Simon
 
Yeah, it was a shame because they came so close in 1983....Alain Prost was used as a scapegoat at Renault because there was huge pressure to win the title. When Alain Prost left to McLaren in '84, that was effectively the end of the 'Regie'.

Sure Renault didnt manage to get the title (BMW, Honda, Ferrari brought in their own turbo's as soon as Renault started winning races. A lot of smiles were wiped off faces :p ) but Renault beleived that the little 1.5 turbo's would beat the normally aspirated 3 litre competition and started the most spectacular era of Formula 1 probably ever. It makes tadays Formula one 'processions' look pathetic. I'd blame Ferrari for that....

It wasnt that BMW, Honda etc perfected the turbo operation or anything, it was mis-management from Renault that eluded them from the title. So much so that Renault pulled out of F1 at the end of '84 season as a constructor (continued as engine supplier) financially troubled.
 
Regular unleaded won't hurt, except the octane is a bit low, so the pinging might continue. BTW I use Redline Lead Substitute.

Stuey
 
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