• Tapatalk and Mobile iOS/ Android APPs no longer supported on aussiefrogs.com. Please delete on your device. Use the web interface instead.

Traction Brake Lines

DoubleChevron

Real cars have hydraulics
Hi All,
20201115_114815.jpg


The hard lines need to be unscrewed to remove the flexible fitting (unless the rubber line is capable of twisting itself up the number of turns the pipe screws on.

I've been avoiding this .... as I was sure I would destroy all the flare nuts and have to cut everything apart. Incredibly its all just unscrewing.

20201115_114831.jpg


I could tell I was twisting the line.... but could tell if it was just the spring outer .... or the line within .... Well, I could tell it was the line within as well as soon as it broke :rolleyes:

20201115_114821.jpg


The other side is going to twist the hard line off as well. Has anyone had traction brakes apart before? Should the flare nut turn freely without the spring outer and line twisting with it :confused: If it should I'll try some heat.

Given I've now snapped a line, I can see they are in fine shape and certainly don't need replacing (look at the wall thickness and shiny metal there in the break). However if I can't see how to unscrew them without twisting the lines off .... this will turn into a full re-piping job just to change one flexible line as I'll twist all the lines off as I just try replace the previous line .... :clown:
 

citroenthusiast

Active member
I took all of mine apart. I wasn't too worried since I planned on making new lines anyway. The steel lines are all 1/4 inch SAE 45 degree flare, which are easy to source here in the states. I invested in a decent turret double flaring tool from Eastwood, and I purchased a few bags of steel flare nuts, which made fabricating the new lines easy.
IMG_5912 (1).jpg
IMG_5913 (1).jpg
 

citroenthusiast

Active member
If you look closely, you will see that I opted for PVC sleeve to protect the brake line from the loop clamps. I slipped the sleeve over before I flared the ends. I put a long sleeve over the line that runs along the bottom of the floor in lieu of the wire spring.
 

DoubleChevron

Real cars have hydraulics
If you look closely, you will see that I opted for PVC sleeve to protect the brake line from the loop clamps. I slipped the sleeve over before I flared the ends. I put a long sleeve over the line that runs along the bottom of the floor in lieu of the wire spring.

Yes I saw that. I was looking at all the line mounts on the car here when I was under it ..... I'm betting all the bolts shear off if I try to unbolt the lines! It looks like your came out without any problems though!
 

DoubleChevron

Real cars have hydraulics
I’ve taken mine completely off and sending it to this place to renew it all.View attachment 127292View attachment 127293
That's amazing, you got it all off without breaking the hard lines. Are the hard lines encased in springs type coils. You can't tell if your twisting the hard line and will break it! The one here was all resleaved with stanless steel about 20years ago and is all still leak free and dry (and working fine amazingly).
 

robo

Member
That's amazing, you got it all off without breaking the hard lines. Are the hard lines encased in springs type coils. You can't tell if your twisting the hard line and will break it! The one here was all resleaved with stanless steel about 20years ago and is all still leak free and dry (and working fine amazingly).
Yes got it all off without braking anything the hardest part was getting to long bit out of the V chanel it was full of dirt clay had to drill holes all along it to clean it out, the fuel line came out it 3 pieces. Think I’ll get them to do it in stainless too they also supply the spring coil
1605436369053.png
 

DoubleChevron

Real cars have hydraulics
Yes got it all off without braking anything the hardest part was getting to long bit out of the V chanel it was full of dirt clay had to drill holes all along it to clean it out, the fuel line came out it 3 pieces. Think I’ll get them to do it in stainless too they also supply the spring coil View attachment 127294

I don't remember seeing twin brake cylinders in the front drums ..... Are they all like that (and I'm obviously blind!) ? What is the idea of running two slave cylinders per drum I wonder ....
 

robo

Member
I don't remember seeing twin brake cylinders in the front drums ..... Are they all like that (and I'm obviously blind!) ? What is the idea of running two slave cylinders per drum I wonder ....
My Traction is a 6 Cylinder they have two cylinders on the front.
 

Armidillo

1000+ Posts
Our Austin A90 (6 cylinder) has the twin leading shoe set up. Brakes work better going forward, but not so well in reverse. The 'leading' edge of each shoe is forced into the path of the oncoming drum surface, which gives more bite than the single slave cylinder/single leading shoe set up.

Surprising what we oldies learnt at our father's knees that you young-uns missed out on!
 
Last edited:

RINGER

Active member
Twin bottom anchor like on the Light 15's was probably the first widely adopted style of hydraulic brakes.
They were not very efficient with the long shoe lining to the front & a shorter shoe to the rear & a PITA to adjust properly [getting the axle, brake shoes & drums concentric].
Twin leading shoes on the front, where most braking effort takes place, were not un-common on English vehicles & early Datsuns [copied] plus they were considerably better.
That was until the advent of Duo Servo brakes introduced in the late 50's early 60's that were very good, short shoe lining to the front long shoe to the rear - somewhat too good @ locking up!
Progressively braking moved to power assisted disc brakes, first with solid discs, then ventilated, with anti lock added later for better function & control.

Added ~ Here is a good explanation:
http://prod.lv2014.gener8cms.net/in...tion-6/drumbs/121-types-of-drum-brake-systems
 
Last edited:

gerrypro

1000+ Posts
Roger Williams in the UK developed a twin floating leading shoe set up. But the original antiquated set up can be made to work well by using the correct circumference gauge to set the concentricity! Tractions were always noted for having very good brakes when correctly set up.
 

DoubleChevron

Real cars have hydraulics
this is unheard of .... everything just keeps unscrewing for me.

20201117_190031.jpg


As expected I can't blow through it. It'll allow pressure through from the brake pedal no doubt, but not allow it to release.

20201117_185930.jpg


Is that the remains of an Oring seal there? I'm pretty sure it will be detritus from the rubber line, and no Oring is needed.

20201117_185641.jpg


The hose retainer unscrewed.... I'll be damned, a slot head screw thats been in place for 70years ... and it unscrewed. M5 x 0.75 so the same as early DS (excellent, we don't want easy to find fasteners :clown: ).

20201117_190300_001.jpg
20201117_190300_001.jpg


The slot head screws are quite rare on D's. Most of the DS M5 bolts are these chevron head fasteners.

20201117_185758.jpg


cupro-nickel is just amazing. Its so easy to shape and work. I'll try to re-use the old fittings. I rang Mr Brakes and they insisted that would be able to make up the flexible line. So I'll head up tomorrow and find out.
 

RINGER

Active member
Suggest do a deal with them & replace all flex lines on the vehicle. They are all way past their service life as are most on these vintage type vehicles..
 

DoubleChevron

Real cars have hydraulics
Suggest do a deal with them & replace all flex lines on the vehicle. They are all way past their service life as are most on these vintage type vehicles..
it will all be replaced in time (as will all the wiring etc). The rest of the lines look like they have already been replaced ..... at some point ...... :ROFLMAO: I'm guessing they won't have any of the fittings and I'll need to order in a full set of lines either way.
 

DoubleChevron

Real cars have hydraulics
Well I rang Mr Brakes in town and the women answering the phone insisted they could make up any line. So I headed up there with the line today. I was actually really impressed she took it out the back, then came back a short time later "can you tell me what sort of fluid this hose will carry"...... Now that is one impressive question for a local brake shop. There was someone there that knows Citroens can have mineral oils in them. I spotted a couple of old beetles and an MG out in there workshop. So I asked her "Do you work on Citroens". She said .... We did one of recently.... and started tapping away on the computer.... Something called a "light 15" we replaced everything.

They didn't have the fittings to make the line, but they had the hard line fittings (I purchased the last three.... no doubt there because they had just repiped a traction) .... Enzed said they could make up a new line by re-using the existing fittings though.

So the car will be movable again once I get it back together. I'll still plan on replacing all of the lines. I'm also quite impressed that Mr Brakes still does old vintage stuff (where on earth did they get a traction drum puller from!)..
 

DoubleChevron

Real cars have hydraulics
Well I dropped this at hte local enzed store yesterday.



and today they rang me and said it was ready.

20201120_192408.jpg


Amazing job right? It looks like they have silver soldered (maybe brazed) new crimp on connectors to the existing hose ends.
 

gerrypro

1000+ Posts
I am a little worried that your length of flexible line will be a little short now to properly flex when the trailing arm moves. I wonder whether it may have been better to get both the rears made to match the longer one you had on the other side. Then you could have included a 'bounce' loop in the line to lessen the strain. Refer to John's picture on Sunday at 4.04 PM.
The workmanship appears to be very good!
 
Top