The CX thread

DoubleChevron · Jan 1, 2025

Well its taken me years .... and years, but finally I have a little time to tinker with the old CX. Talk about a trip down memory lane.

finally some space in the shed, and some time to work on it. the car has been barely driven for the last 5years.

\

The car has been quite damaged by mice over the last 10 years ... I was just emptying the glovebox .... epi-pen junior .... wow, the date on that, she was 2years old. She just got her license 3 days ago.

Everytime I drive the car, I keep expecting to see this in my rear view mirror when I look into it. They are 18 and 20years old now.... So how long have I had this poor old car?

She is now 20years old.

I wonder why the mice have eaten holes in the rear seat ..... Would it be bloody kids slopping lots of food squishing it into the fabric

DoubleChevron · Jan 1, 2025

I didn't want to drive the car much until I looked at the drivers seat. It feels like I'm sitting far to low in it. I don't want to the damage the foam if it has that hession material or rubber rings like other old Citreons that have deteriated.

These cars are a absolute pain to get the seats out of. You need to get under the car and wire brush, and soak the exposed threads under the car before you try. As you can see the captive nuts, start spinning almost right away if the threads are tight. I didn't have much hope with this car as its an import from the salt soggy UK. However fortunately I must have been here before ( I can't remember ever pulling the seats before, but I must have).

weirdly I couldn't find a single issue with the base. I wonder if anyone in the world makes the plastic strips that hold that seat back on yet.

I have worked out what is going on. See that material. It spreads the load over the across all of the springs. This appears to have stretched and be no longer effective. I cable tied them together rather than using more material. The seat is back to its old self now :dance:

Mices.... look what they have been eating under the seat.

I guess I better move along and pull the other seat out and see what is going on under that one ....

Greenpeace · Jan 1, 2025

That brings back memories.
I don't have a photo unfortunately, but I still have this clear image in my head of 3 of my kids buckled into the back seat of a Niki, and the youngest girl in the middle, pink dummy in mouth, pointing at the big hole in the roof, because the fabric sunroof was wound back.
No child seats obviously, and I had to add the centre seat belt, as the Niki was technically only a 4 seater. Not saying it was tight back there, but they certainly didn't (couldn't) fight much.

She's 33 this month, where did that time go?

DoubleChevron · Jan 1, 2025

Look at the snail shell above the brake pedal.... the same hole is munched under the passenger front seat.

Holes, holes everywhere. What a shame, this VIP interior so so hardy and nice to sit in.

DoubleChevron · Jan 1, 2025

I'm going to have to keep going with the pulling apart.... which I don't like to do as I have a bad habit of not re-assembling cars once they are pulled apart, but I better drop the lower dash and make sure there is no further damage hidden up there.

DoubleChevron · Jan 1, 2025

Greenpeace said:
That brings back memories.
I don't have a photo unfortunately, but I still have this clear image in my head of 3 of my kids buckled into the back seat of a Niki, and the youngest girl in the middle, pink dummy in mouth, pointing at the big hole in the roof, because the fabric sunroof was wound back.
No child seats obviously, and I had to add the centre seat belt, as the Niki was technically only a 4 seater. Not saying it was tight back there, but they certainly didn't (couldn't) fight much.
She's 33 this month, where did that time go?

I've had this car since before the kids were born ... and we did a lot of "Cit-ins" back then. They used to do the motorkhana with me

DoubleChevron · Jan 1, 2025

Another thing to do .... The car has been draining the battery for years and years.... leave it for 3 -> 5 days, and we have a flat battery. I did look at this (probably 1:00am .... on the spur of the moment years ago, and it seemed to be the stereo). Anyway, that the head unit is playing up, if I turn the volume up, the head unit dies, and powers back on. While I have the seats out, I figured I better do something about this ...

I thought this thing was amazing when I bought it, it gets around the "CD's don't like to play vertically .... neither do tape decks" issue. If you like 10year old music, just spool this sucker up and listen to that usb stick

anyway, I hit up facebook marketplace, for anything without crappy flashing LEDs and most importantly, bluetooth! The music comes from your phone in this decade/century :clown:

I foudn this sucker, for not a lot of money on FB marketplace..... Alpine, now that brings back memories...... I would have just loved to have this head unit years ago, but that just wasn't going to happen.

I purchased these years ago ... before I was married ... before I had kids. they are alpine DDrive speakers. Over the years, one of the rear speakers died (the parcel shelf speakers allow crap to fall into them and make loud scratching noises) ... I also crushed one of the front tweaters from memory somehow...... which leads me to GibGib, the owner and creator of this forum. Way back then .... From him, I purchased an alpine amplifier --used-- (its in the boot of this car)

I have done checks and test on this this afternoon, and its not my problem. But that reminded me, and I went searching. Look what I found

I always intended to fit these to this car. They were a part of the deal with the amplifier from GibGib. I have a subwoofer box I built decades ago with a subwoofer in it. Its in a shed here somehwere, but it filled the boot, so I couldn't use it as it filled the boot (so I couldn't fit pushers/prams/kids stuff).

Maybe after all these years .... er, decades

I should finally use these? They are "free air" so I'd just need to mount them in the back of the boot and not use a lot of space to drive them.

cresco750 · Jan 2, 2025

Watching with keen interest! I seem to recall that someone somewhere around the world has recreated those plastic bits for the seat back using 3D printing? I’ll see if I can find it, otherwise drop a message to Preben on the .io group as he’s quite knowledgeable with this sort of thing.

DoubleChevron · Jan 2, 2025

Oh yeah, there is so much that needs doing ..... So I'm playing with the stereo ... The only thing that isn't important.

So there is two amplifiers attached to the back wall of the boot. I've been chasing wiring, as soon as I dropped the amplifiers down, the current drain dissapeared and one of the rear speakers started working. I think what has been happening is the power and remote wiring on the jvc amplifier were being squeezed together.... turning the damn thing on .... which is a 500mA (0.5amp) current draw. So yeah, 3 -> 5 days the battery is flat. Tracing wiring found the amplifier is only driving the rear speakers... which is weird. I bet I didn't have any speaker wire left, the car was run on a brutal budget, speaker wire was expensive, so if there was none in parts cars, I would have left the front speakers being driven by the factory wiring down at the head unit.

The other amp is for the subwoofer that is somewhere ... I'm not putting it back in, it fills the boot. I was hoping pulling the cover off the rear A/C unit would give me access to that speaker (nope). its wires had dropped off when I pulled it out from inside the car.

DoubleChevron · Jan 2, 2025

So I have lots of things to do.

indicators ... not working, the switch if full of dust
wipers .... sloooooowwwwly scratch the crap out of the screen ... at least they are still working
headlights, actually they are great, I re-wired and relayed them recently
none of the windows want to work (switches full of dust)
disable steering lock. I don't trust that 40year old lock to not leave me stranded somewhere at all.
I probably should replace the imoliser/alarm thing before it leaves me stranded somewhere. amazingly there is still one working alarm for it
most of the gauges aren't working ... the tacho stopped working a couple of years back

So lots of little jobs that are important for driving it.

So I continued to tinker with the stereo. I'm amazed as its just coming back to life with some tinkering.

This must be easily 25 years old. I remember using a DOS based speaker box program to work out the box dimensions and port size length/size. Don't you love the great finish ... I put a lot of effort into presentation, I did intend to cover it in carpet at some point. I didn't own any wood working tools capable of cutting a straight line... so she's pretty dodgy, but is incredibly heavy and works well.

I reckon I can do far better these days. So I found this bit of plywood laying in the grass out in the paddock.

I didn't jack unscrew the old box, chop it down using a reciprocating saw (so lovely straight cuts) ... and somehow mangle it back together

I've never tried these subs .... I must have had them in various sheds and houses for easily 20years now.

Can you believe that .... A lot of this stuff I've had for at least 25years (aside from the head unit). Most was purchased 2nd hand ... and its all come back to life with some tinkering. Oh, and the music on the USB key ..... its got to be 15years old not 10

Oh the main thing .... 13.87mA draw while sitting. It was over 500mA before to put it into perspective.

geedee · Jan 2, 2025

Could you remove the map pockets from the front seats, replace them with netting and use the material to get the holes in your seats patched by an upholsterer?

DoubleChevron · Jan 2, 2025

geedee said:
Could you remove the map pockets from the front seats, replace them with netting and use the material to get the holes in your seats patched by an upholsterer?

I'm not sure, how would they join in new material without replacing the entire panel in the seat

DoubleChevron · Jan 2, 2025

So some useful stuff. We need indicators, and those suckers just do not want to work, no matter how often I try them. However the hazard lights work, which means all the lights, wiring and everything is working.

The switch pods just easily unscrew (don't forget the screws underneath). Then the wiring unplugs

I found you could gently pry the front off the switch housing

just don't break the plastic

Then you can see the screws (note: the screws are phillips, they are pozidrive). The indicator switch will just unscrew and remove. I found I could pop the indicator rocker off (gentle with the 40year old plastic).

Same deal, the top could pop off the switch housing. Once again, slow and careful. Note: springs in the lid, don't loose them.

Still can't get to the damn switch contacts. There is no way you could clean these without dismantling.

carefully pry up and out the switch contacts.

Can you pick the contact I have filed?

same deal with the other side of the contacts, look at the one I haven't cleaned yet.

Now, assembly is the reverse .... The switch now works like magic. Every single time it works with no issues :dance:

I have checked every other switch on the binacles and they are all workign perfectly

seeya,
Shane L.

DoubleChevron · Jan 2, 2025

Now for the hard bit.... that I've been avoiding for years.... Why don't I have a tacho.... the oil pressure/level gauge has never worked (the are fitted to BX16valves as well, they also never work on them either). The boost gauge I have noticed has also died recently.

The pictures are for me, so I can see how it goes back together. Bottom line is, I've check all the circuit ribbon for these circuits and it tests out fine, the tacho gear are not stripped.... There appears to be no dry solder joints and no wiring issues. The capacitors show no evidence of swelling or leaking .... Hmmm.....

DoubleChevron · Jan 2, 2025

So now is when we hit up Preben over on the groups list serv. He has a thread going on CX insturments.

This is not my work. I'm not this smart!

Electronics Diagrams/Schematics

groups.io

I have started a schematic of the Oil level and Pressure circuit, but it's a slow process.
But in the meantime, I got hold of a Schematic capture tool and have created the schematic, and a PCB, for the Tachometer.

It's imperfect, as I had to include a dummy device to create a double footprint for a dually used resistor on the PCB. A bit cryptic explained, but...

I had in mind to simulate the product, but Citroen, and probably many others that used this circuit for general Tachometer use, used a custom, and "unobtainable" device. The SAK 215 is shown in the schematic. I have looked all over the internet, and I'm not the only one looking for it, to no avail. Wouldn't matter anyhow, as it is programmed, and I don't have any access to the code.

I kind of found out that it's an 8-bit microcontroller for which I don't have a description of its "transfer function," which prevents me from simulating the circuit.

So, Shane, the Blue C6 and C7 are the 2 capacitors you need to change unless your issue is mechanical, like I found on Gary's Tachometer.

BTW there is a slight change between the unit I have from Gary and the ones from Neil. There are two more devices on the Turbo or maybe on later CXs. The same PCB layout for all, though

Preben

My PCB Design in 3D for the Tachometer.

So I mentioned to him a while back I don't have a working tacho or boost gauge:

Shane, in a non-too-demanding search for a source for the Boost and Tach Gauges, I can suggest that you do 2 measurements that you can do in 1/2 an hour or less.

I use a good old analog meter to see better if there's movement quickly.

Or maybe I'm just old It also rests nicely on the steering wheel so one can have both hands free.

Have the car running in Idle.

Measurement 1: Probes on GND and Pin 4 on connector 4 to observe approximately 0.7Volts at idle. Apply a bit of gas see the voltmeter needle follow your gas giving..

Measurement 2: Probes on GND and Pin 1 on Connector 5 to observe about 2Volts at Idle. This value will drop as you give gas,

If you observe these behaviors, the problem is most likely with the gauge itself; if not, then you need to go after the source, and as you stated, they are most likely to be found in the connectors.

Do you have a 3 or 4 LCD display? You might have seen my work in this area, and I can help you with advice and some fresh elastomeric connectors, that is most likely your display problem.
I assume that you will get there some years down the road ?

Just my 2 cents

Preben

So I have checked the wiring on my car, and yes, I have voltage to the right pins and the boost gauge and tacho sender wires both work as desired. ie: the gauges themselves are the issue.

DoubleChevron · Jan 3, 2025

Lets see if we can keep the successful fixing going :dance:

The dash just all unplugs readily. except for the damn speedo cable...you'll be yelling abuse at this... as there is no doubt, you will smash the whole thing trying to pry that mongrel cable off the connection

The circuit boards we are intrested in are burried behind the tacho. Those circuit ribbons, pop the white plastic retaining rivets out and feed the circuit ribbon out. then unscrew that black plastic housing it clips too.

Under this you will be able to lift the oil pressure/level gauge electronics off.

This has never worked in the time we have owned the car ( 1995 ). But I might was well try changing the two capacitors while I'm here (the 2nd is hding behind the circuit ribbon).

That is the tacho board under the level/pressure board. You can unscrew and extract this. Now if you turn the binacle over and pull the face off you can extract the tacho.

There is no problems I can see.

Two capacitors we can replace this. So today I whipped upto wiltronics and grabbed:

100uF 35v
47uF 35v
10uF 25v
22uF 63v

We are lucky to have a proper electronics shop in ballarat still (its attached to a factory). I also went for a drive down to jaycar as my 12year old wanted to look at the kits.

I spotted this, no bargain, but finally, after decades ... lets try one rather than trying to balance circuit boards on coffee cups etc. It wasn't a bargain unfortunately.

DoubleChevron · Jan 3, 2025

So moving along ...

that magnifier is fiddly ... but makes the almost impossible reletively simple. I grabbed some fresh solder and desoldering wick as well. the stuff I have here would be a decade old. Particularly I wanted fresh new de-soldering wick.

I replaced all of the capacitors (yes I got them the right way around). So eagerly re-assembled it to refit to the to find

........

...............................

....................................................

............................................................................

Not a cracker ... nothing, they are both as dead as they were before I started..... Oh well, it was worth a try.

Trading Estate · Jan 3, 2025

Love it, wrestling with 80's electrics!! ! (you need a 'garage' cat!

)

DoubleChevron · Jan 4, 2025

So the windows the don't want to work .... First, I found the switch is missing for one of the rear windows ..... Where on earth has that gone

I bet I removed the damn thing and moved to the front at some point as I ended up with a window stuck down somewhere. I wonder where the damn thing has gone :blackeye:

Usually bits that fall off or get removed are left in the car :clown:

I don't think I've ever actually cleaned the contacts in one of these switches before, I have popped the top and tried contact cleaner down in there.... maybe even changed some globes decades back.