I wouldn't mind a C2 with that spec. Though still not a patch on a 138. Why don't Citroen go head to head with Peugeot. They can beat them in WRC but don't have a hero car to followup with.TroyO said:
Tell me about Sensodrive.
- Thread starter Trixie
- Start date
kermit said:
Not sure what is behind Citroen's thinking. Citroen's sporty models always seems to be restrained, a sporty and luxury mix. (Xsara VTS was like that)
Perhaps the 2L doesn't fit in the C2 (C2 VTS is still a 1.6L). C2 is seen as the replacement of the Saxo, so it's not quite in the 206/207 ballpark.
Still not a bad performer though. 0-100 in 8.3 seconds.
Troy.
That equals the time of a 138. Didn't realise they were that fast. Pity you can't buy one.TroyO said:
Now I've tried it.
Strikes me its an alternative to an automatic, and viewed as such its good. It changes too slowly to be a true manual alternative, but has more control than most tiptronic type autos. I had absolutely no trouble driving it impercebtibly smoothly at first acquaintance although did find it a little frustrating when accelerating briskly changing 1-2. Agree that downchanges are great.
Not that impressed with auto mode for briskish driving, but it seemed just fine for pottering which, after all, is what autos are for.
My only real concern was reverse parking on a hill; I suppose I'm used to the clutch foot doing the controlling and once adapted it would be fine. Meanwhile I could use the handbrake a la manual.
I liked it - I'd prefer it to an auto in a small car, but would still go manual every time.
Strikes me its an alternative to an automatic, and viewed as such its good. It changes too slowly to be a true manual alternative, but has more control than most tiptronic type autos. I had absolutely no trouble driving it impercebtibly smoothly at first acquaintance although did find it a little frustrating when accelerating briskly changing 1-2. Agree that downchanges are great.
Not that impressed with auto mode for briskish driving, but it seemed just fine for pottering which, after all, is what autos are for.
My only real concern was reverse parking on a hill; I suppose I'm used to the clutch foot doing the controlling and once adapted it would be fine. Meanwhile I could use the handbrake a la manual.
I liked it - I'd prefer it to an auto in a small car, but would still go manual every time.
TroyO said:
kermit said:
To be honest, I don't believe that figure - if those are Citroën's figures, where did they test the car? The runway at Wellington airport with a tailwind? (Wellington's bloody windy)
Auto Motor und Sport (arguably Europe's most respected magazine) clocked the C2 1.6 Sensodrive at 11.8s for 0-100km/h and weighed the car at 1113kg (61.1/38.9 weight distribution). Plus, at 140km/h in 5th gear interior noise is 76dB
11.8s probably is a wee bit slower than I expected, but then when you factor the slow Sensodrive changes/its inefficiency, it's not so out of the question. The C2 Sensodrive isn't particularly light for its size.
Interestingly, in the test yearbook, the 307 1.6 managed 10.4s for the 0-100km/h run.
Pug307 said:To be honest, I don't believe that figure - if those are Citroën's figures, where did they test the car? The runway at Wellington airport with a tailwind? (Wellington's bloody windy)
Auto Motor und Sport (arguably Europe's most respected magazine) clocked the C2 1.6 Sensodrive at 11.8s for 0-100km/h and weighed the car at 1113kg (61.1/38.9 weight distribution). Plus, at 140km/h in 5th gear interior noise is 76dB
11.8s probably is a wee bit slower than I expected, but then when you factor the slow Sensodrive changes/its inefficiency, it's not so out of the question. The C2 Sensodrive isn't particularly light for its size.
Interestingly, in the test yearbook, the 307 1.6 managed 10.4s for the 0-100km/h run.
I rather suspect the Aussie Froggers above were referring to the C2 VTS model and its 0-100 time...the C2 VTS is not sold here, and is specified with a 5 speed ordinary manual...and has been tuned for more power from the engine. So, the Auto Motor und Sport data, which may be applicable to the C2 VTR with SensoDrive, is not applicable in this case.
Cheers
Soafie's comments above are in line with my experience. 13k kms since March 2004 with the C2 and I love the car and utterly loathe the sensodrive. Perhaps it being my first auto is the problem! Two major issues:
1. Clutch slip on take off up any sort of slope is, frankly, embarrassing. I can't imagine how the clutch will get through warranty.
2. Entering a slow intersection and accelerating is the other area where the sensodrive leaves me cold - it's just too slow getting back down the gears.
No other problems with the car expect the transmission (but don't ask about the dealer!)
I've had all the alleged software upgrades, and I've not noticed any difference. It will be on the market if the manual GT gets to Oz. Early offers??
1. Clutch slip on take off up any sort of slope is, frankly, embarrassing. I can't imagine how the clutch will get through warranty.
2. Entering a slow intersection and accelerating is the other area where the sensodrive leaves me cold - it's just too slow getting back down the gears.
No other problems with the car expect the transmission (but don't ask about the dealer!)
I've had all the alleged software upgrades, and I've not noticed any difference. It will be on the market if the manual GT gets to Oz. Early offers??
Pug307 said:Auto Motor und Sport (arguably Europe's most respected magazine) clocked the C2 1.6 Sensodrive at 11.8s for 0-100km/h and weighed the car at 1113kg (61.1/38.9 weight distribution). Plus, at 140km/h in 5th gear interior noise is 76dB
11.8s probably is a wee bit slower than I expected, but then when you factor the slow Sensodrive changes/its inefficiency, it's not so out of the question. The C2 Sensodrive isn't particularly light for its size.
I was going to quote EVO since they said in the December 03 edition that the C2 VT-R is good for 10.7 secs for the 0-60mph, but it's only a claimed figure. Lazy bastards; twelve cars all with claimed figures, not actually tested. Even if you reckon Aussie mags don't like french cars (which I don't think is the case, BTW), at least they do all their own testing!
Interestingly, the C2 was quite quick around EVO's test track. 93.60 secs compares with 94.50 for an MG ZR and a huge 97:00 for Mini One!
I drove a C2 this evening for the first time. The owner drove first and showed me what he does on a slow rolling take off at an intersection - that is with the car in auto mode, use the left paddle to force a downchange to 1st then go for it. He leaves the car in auto most of the time and plays paddles when he feels like it.
I used this technique and had a hoot of a time. When I felt like it I would just leave it in auto mode and cruise along.
I would still buy one. But then again I have driven DS hydrauliques and am used to the type of action that sensodrive gives.
I used this technique and had a hoot of a time. When I felt like it I would just leave it in auto mode and cruise along.
I would still buy one. But then again I have driven DS hydrauliques and am used to the type of action that sensodrive gives.
The trick here is don't be timid. Treat it like you are driving a real manual. Give it a bootfull of throttle then left off a little as the clutch engages. By doing this, I find the clutch slip is no more or less than a conventional manual.ucc2 said:
This is a well known quirk. If you are approaching an intersection at a roll, use the paddle to get into first gear. Once back on the throttle, just reach down and hit the auto button again. It requires some manual intervention for rolling intersections. Don't try to dart into a small gap in auto mode - you will get killed doing that!ucc2 said:
thats the figure of the C2 VTS with increased power and lighter weight ....i think its quite believable, however, if sold here, it would have to compete with some very very tough matches, namely the new Polo GTI which is simply an amazing car for its money. Then you've got the barina SRi which is cheap as chips and goes alright....for a barina.
When an overseas company brings out their line of cars to international markets they have to factor in its viability with many issues in mind such as: competition, pricing, its range, its target market, the countries conditions, the peoples preference etc etc. For a country that predominantly likes their big and powerful 4 door, practical and reliable saloons, the Australian market is already flooded with small, cheap, cars and thats why people buy them...most people in Australia buy a car the size of a C2 for its A to B purpose alone, hence they would much rather buy a 13,990 driveaway hyundai or daihatsu than spending 20 - 30k bringing it right into the medium sedan and cheaper large family sedan market. It wouldnt make any business sense for Citroen to bring out the C2 VTS as they would only be selling to a few enthusiasts...
now, back on topic.........
When an overseas company brings out their line of cars to international markets they have to factor in its viability with many issues in mind such as: competition, pricing, its range, its target market, the countries conditions, the peoples preference etc etc. For a country that predominantly likes their big and powerful 4 door, practical and reliable saloons, the Australian market is already flooded with small, cheap, cars and thats why people buy them...most people in Australia buy a car the size of a C2 for its A to B purpose alone, hence they would much rather buy a 13,990 driveaway hyundai or daihatsu than spending 20 - 30k bringing it right into the medium sedan and cheaper large family sedan market. It wouldnt make any business sense for Citroen to bring out the C2 VTS as they would only be selling to a few enthusiasts...
now, back on topic.........
sim0n said:
I dont agree. the difference in the UK between the VTR & VTS is approx AUD$2K, yet it's 2 seconds quicker than the VTR. Those enthousiasts would definately pay that premium (I certainly would have) (would still be cheaper than Clio Sport, Peogeot 180 etc, more or less comparable performance) I think if Citroen were to have bought the VTS to Aust, they simply would have sold more. Id say it's due that the VTR was released months before the VTS.
The VTS' performance compares to the 138, NOT the 180.Davide Perinet said:
JamesII said:
The owner of the C2 that I drove the other night leaves the car in Auto for daily driving and then uses the flick down (via paddle) to 1st for quick response at rolling give ways. The car stays in auto then. You can leave the car in auto yet still intervene with manual changes. (yes I know it doesn't make sense, why have a dog and bark too - yadda yadda yadda blah blah blah)
kermit said:
C2 VTS- 8.2 seconds (would be about $29-30 K) if it ever came here.
180 - 7.4 seconds ($34990)
& the Citroen is made in France........... :headbang: :adrink:
As opposed to the rhd 206s coming from England. Do the French screw cars together better than the Poms. My Italian made Coupe is screwed together well.Davide Perinet said:
kermit said:
French do everyting better than the English
Except defend their country from the Germans.Davide Perinet said:
kermit said:
"dont mention the war"