Stopping flex in a 205

Steve,

all the bits that have spot welds that join the panels together have a tendency to flex. Pug 306 N5 has something like 1000 more welds than the N3.
This obviously stiffens the body as any 306 owner will attest to, once he/she has driven N3 vs N5.

Seam welding is another step in the same idea. You dont just add more spot welds, you weld ALONG THE WHOLE panel especially the long joints like the floor/subframe, kick panels , wheel arches, anything that has a chance of flexing especially under diagonal stress.

If you chat to rally guys they can fill you in a lot more. Expect a car to be a lot more rigid and less day to day drivable as the bumps and potholes transfer insde the cabin to the driver.

cheers
Voytek
 
tekkie:
damn you Chris, beat me to it.
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yeah but im so dumb... i forgot the most obvious example of extra body ridigity/semi seam weld... N3 and N5 306!!!! i even own one!!!!.... :confused: :confused: - chris
 
Ray Bell:
Well, nobody seems to have mentioned that other body stiffener that's used in rally cars so frequently...

Foam filling the channels.
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Ray, is this somesort of expanding foam that sets hard? tell me more please - chris
 
Ray Bell:
Now everything counts, so be sure, but if it's cracking, surely there is a basic flaw, or not sufficient metal section to give the required strength?
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That gave me an idea. which is just a roll cage really but what about a vertical post on either side of the door posts ie. a post inside next to the back rest of the seat. Does anyone get what i mean?

Originally posted by GTi Revolution:
[QB]A 205 is an oversized mini on roids! Its main aim is to go very fast around corners. Most people drive 205;s the way they were meant to be driven HARD. When cars are driven hard after 3 years the car (by peugeots standards) is worn out. If you have 4cm cracks in your 205 join the line of 205 owners that have. Its a sign that the car has been driven correctly. Most of us with 205's or like me many 205's don't worry about it, it comes with the car as a standard feature. If you don't like it then trade in your car for a 306? If you car is a road car then there is not alot you can do about it. Just keep driving it like it was meant to be driven.[QB]
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i just want it stiffer so i can drive it even harder. after all stiffness improves lap times.
 
Ray Bell:
Well, nobody seems to have mentioned that other body stiffener that's used in rally cars so frequently...

Foam filling the channels.
Click to expand...
yes
very similar stuff they use in hot water systems

BTW don't breath it in if you are prone to asthma :D

also i thought i seam welding they don't actually weld the whole thing they only weld in like 25mm beads along the join otherwise you risk pulling the whole car out of shape
just what i have been told anyway
 
pugrambo
[QB

also i thought i seam welding they don't actually weld the whole thing they only weld in like 25mm beads along the join otherwise you risk pulling the whole car out of shape
just what i have been told anyway[/QB]
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True, they usually lead-fill the rest..or exactly how would you do a mini? - chris
 
I think seam welding is a bit more complete than that... otherwise the spot welds would do...

As for this...

Originally posted by two-oh-philic
That gave me an idea. which is just a roll cage really but what about a vertical post on either side of the door posts ie. a post inside next to the back rest of the seat. Does anyone get what i mean?
Click to expand...
There's no stiffening in that... you need triangulation to prevent twist.
 
Ray Bell:
Well, nobody seems to have mentioned that other body stiffener that's used in rally cars so frequently...

Foam filling the channels.
Click to expand...
We left it alone on purpose. wink

Ray, enter stage left ! :)

I am guessing (as is Chris) you are talking about the foam-fill (or similar) available from hardware stores?
Where would it be applied?
Is there any rust problems with using it?

thanks
Voytek

ps. I actually never heard of that foam being used for strengthening of the chassis.
 
CHRI'S16:
True, they usually lead-fill the rest..or exactly how would you do a mini? - chris
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Lead fill is simply a body filler... not a bonding agent.

Yes, the foam you get from the hardware store, you mix it up and pour it into the channel sections somehow... the door pillars etc. stop up the openings so it spreads right through the hollows and fills them.

It might seem strange, but it works, apparently.
 
Ray Bell:
Yes, the foam you get from the hardware store, you mix it up and pour it into the channel sections somehow... the door pillars etc. stop up the openings so it spreads right through the hollows and fills them.

It might seem strange, but it works, apparently.
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I can see how it would help, almost along the lines of a honeycomb construction principle

Do you know of any guys that have actually done it, or did you hear of it 2nd hand?

(im tempted to give it a go!)
 
if you do it ensure all surfaces are clean and dry
any moisture in there will be kept in there once the foam goes in
BTW the foam goes off faster and has more volume at temperature say around 27-30c is perfect and it also bonds more to the metal at these temps

had a lot of experience in using this foam and have worn it a few times too
not good as the only way to get it out of your hair is to get it cut mallet
 
Thanks guys - I am now more educated :) It does sound like something worth doing although I think I would do this at the same time as a full roll-cage.

PS Chris, haven't got your 2nd email yet.

Cheers
Steve

<small>[ 11 October 2003, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: WRX2PUG ]</small>
 
WRX2PUG:
Thanks guys - I am now more educated :) It does sound like something worth doing although I think I would do this at the same time as a full roll-cage.

PS Chris, haven't got your 2nd email yet.

Cheers
Steve
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Steve, go the cage.. i noticed a fair bit extra predictability with mine and works well with a front strut bar, which you already have.
Aso ive sent the email again, and thanks for your help - chris
 
Years ago my hot 16TS powered R8 had the sills and such foam filled. Rust is definately a problem, although Peugeot now treat their bodies much better against rust than my R8 was. My poor R8 now has the worst sill rust of any I have seen. It has been off the road for a few years to be used as a parts car for another go fast 8.
No, I don't own it anymore, but many years of competition without a cage caused major cracks in the A and C pillars, and the rear subframe.
 
tekkie:
[I can see how it would help, almost along the lines of a honeycomb construction principle

Do you know of any guys that have actually done it, or did you hear of it 2nd hand?

(im tempted to give it a go!)
Click to expand...
Well, Peugeot have been using this technique at the factory since the late 1960s and I suppose most other manufacturers have aswell.

Having angle grinded through quite a number of 504 bodies, I can tell you that the A, B and C pillars on 504s are full of foam. The disadvantage is that moisture collects in the foam and causes rust.

One of the few rust spots in my 505 is where moisture collect in the foam just infront of the right rear wheel arch. When I was cutting the rust out I had to gouge some of the foam out so I could put preventive rust treatment inside.

I know of people with Datsun 1600s who have filled all the sections with foam themselves (I guess that's the section which weren't allready done at the factory). I've found that the original factory foam filling doesn't always fill as much as it's supposed to. It varies from car to car. I guess the people on the production lines in those days weren't too fussy.

Dave

<small>[ 12 October 2003, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
 
thats true dave

seeing as the foam expands more when the temperature of the cavity it is going into when it is warmer
if it is cool it won't expand as far and so doesn't fill the cavity up as far as it would if it were warmer

iso-cyanatte is one part
poly blah blah blah is the other part

i think ICI make the chemicals and have all the data sheets on it

i'll have a look around here somewhere for them as i used to work day in day out with this stuff
 
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