Stopping flex in a 205

two-oh-philic

two-oh-philic

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Fellow Frogger
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
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Glen Waverley, Melbourne
Short of a roll cage what can be done to stop flex? I imagine that 850kgs of car doesn't really cut it for stiffness. I have two cracks above and behind my doors about 4cms long. I know of ppl putting strut braces, and i even heard of something on the firewall to stop flex under braking or something. Does the back end flex? How do you put a brace in the back? Any thoughts anyone?
 
i think the doors on these cars are way 2 big (structurally)for the size of the car(considering also the engine and the type of suspension in the gti)...probably the reason just about every 205 develops cracking in the abovementioned spot...roof should have been reinforced (lengthwise)more...a strut brace might help with front end flex but these braces might just as easily magnify the problem somewhere else.....look on the bright side...atleast your door locks are still aligned and they shut cleanly....

cheers
dino
 
That may or may not be true, dino...

It may be that stiffening the front passes some rigidity on to the rear.

How about a tubular X-brace across the floor between the base of the front and rear door pillars, then a triangulating tube between one side and the other, top to bottom?

I'd reckon 1" 16g tube would do that, would weigh next to nothing. Bolt the rear fixings to the safety belt mounts if you don't want to weld anything in, but you'll have to make your own front mounts.
 
With the 1.9 litre engine (out of the 405) and

very hard suspension its not surprising the 205

flexes...i wonder if anybody on this forum is

aware if the 205 gti body was strengthened in any

way from the standard 205????....i m of the

opinion that the chasis is not as strong as it

should be for this engine/suspension set up....i d

be recomending some sort of underbody

bracing/strenthening...ultimately a roll cage

would be the most effective in holding it all

together as the forces transferred via the chassis

should easily be absorbed by a decent roll cage...

cheers
dino
 
a lot of rally cars weld the seams on their cars.

Most of the flex happens on the joints of the individual body panels. you could do what Dino suggested and weld in some small tubes along the door sills, and across the floor. But then you are almost at the stage where a small rollcage is made.
 
While the 205gti does flex a little, they are tight as a drum compared to many "normal" cars I could mention........especially considering 205gti's firm suspension, their age and the way most would have been driven during their lives

I think the whole "flexing" impression is greatly amplified by the crappy interior materials which rattle and carry on.

If you take the time, or pay someone to run through the car and reseat/adjust the doors and hatch it makes a world of difference :D

Structurally they're alot stiffer than many other early 80's (designed) hatches i can think of.
 
The point of my suggested crossbrace etc was that it could be removed readily, and it wouldn't be very intrusive while it was there.

At the same time, it would do something that a roll cage doesn't do unless it's quite complex... it would triangulate the body section through the door area.
 
If your willing to strip out the car and be prepared for perhaps some paint touch ups, then seam welding in a 205 really helps, drove a mates white 89S1 that had his done and was down to 1:21's on shite street tyres at wakefield, and heed never driven on a race track before.
Tekkie and jfn306 have seen the car, nothing glorious but whent well.
- chris
 
i think (as chris has mentioned)seam welding is

probably the best option...it would be a matter of

stripping the car (which u could do

yourself),renting the welding equipment and simply

touching up afterwards....would also give u the

oportunity to seal (silicone/doublesided tape)some

of the rattly interior plastic trimwork...makes a

big differnce on the 205....


I think the whole "flexing" impression is greatly amplified by the crappy interior materials which rattle and carry on.
Click to expand...
i think u r right DTwo, its not really that bad...but in regards to the quoted comment....it might be that the interior plastics become so rattly BECAUSE of the body flex....maybe unlikely...but i m sure it contributes...the hard suspension doesnt help either....Do the smaller engined 205 rattle as much internally (the 1.4s and the like)???

cheers

dino
 
If you don't want to go to a roll cage, then I imagine this would be a road car?

If that's so, wouldn't seam welding be a bit of a drama? More than a roll cage, I'd imagine?

And don't forget, seam welding can only stiffen what's there, and then only a little. Now everything counts, so be sure, but if it's cracking, surely there is a basic flaw, or not sufficient metal section to give the required strength?
 
dino:

I think the whole "flexing" impression is greatly amplified by the crappy interior materials which rattle and carry on.
Click to expand...
i think u r right DTwo, its not really that bad...but in regards to the quoted comment....it might be that the interior plastics become so rattly BECAUSE of the body flex....maybe unlikely...but i m sure it contributes...the hard suspension doesnt help either....Do the smaller engined 205 rattle as much internally (the 1.4s and the like)???

cheers

dino
Click to expand...
All the 205s rattle, it's worse in the gtis due the the stiff suspension obviously :)

There isn't alot of mechanical (as opposed to equipment) weight difference between the 1.9 and 1.6 due to their using essentially the same block/gearbox, I'm not sure about the weight differences of the smaller engines (they weren't available here anyway)......assuming you are referring to the weight differences effecting rigidity rather than power differences that is

Another thing of note, I guess, is that the front suspension (and subframe?) was different for the GTIs vs normal models....there's definitely less "give" in GTI front suspension than SIs.

Putting upper and lower braces on the front suspension is ment to make a pretty noticeable difference in the GTI.

Couldn't the body cracking be a sign of how stiff the car is (was :) ) ?.........if it had so much flex, it would flex rather than crack? :)

I read somewhere that they used to throw away seam welded mini shells after rallies cause they were full of cracks (cause they were so stiff). Apparently earlier 911s have a few spots where they all crack when driven hard......

EDIT
SI not sti :)

<small>[ 11 October 2003, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: DTwo ]</small>
 
i remember when the VN commode came out i used to get the job of welding up the rear wheel arches in the ones that the blokes had at work and they were not very old and hadn't been bashed hard yet
there are many cars out there as ray has said that crack
 
A 205 is an oversized mini on roids! Its main aim is to go very fast around corners. Most people drive 205;s the way they were meant to be driven HARD. When cars are driven hard after 3 years the car (by peugeots standards) is worn out. If you have 4cm cracks in your 205 join the line of 205 owners that have. Its a sign that the car has been driven correctly. Most of us with 205's or like me many 205's don't worry about it, it comes with the car as a standard feature. If you don't like it then trade in your car for a 306? If you car is a road car then there is not alot you can do about it. Just keep driving it like it was meant to be driven.

peugeot_
 
dino:
i think (as chris has mentioned)seam welding is

probably the best option...it would be a matter of

stripping the car (which u could do

yourself),renting the welding equipment and simply

touching up afterwards....

dino
Click to expand...
The expence here is the rods and paint, and touch ups mean, the paint on panels, and ussually means a whole re-spray, dependin on your welding skills....... either way expence, appart from cheap home made strut and rear hatch brace (ie goes from Lower LH to Upper RH corner in the actual hatch opening it self.... just a though. - chris
 
pugrambo:
pug bodies for years were never any good

203's, 403,s crack
404's driven hard crack
Click to expand...
Yeah, if you own a 404 for long enough and carry a bit of weight in the boot, the boot tends to part with the car (kind of like a skink loosing its tail! :) ).

I've heard of 505s doing this also, especially in rough road environments. 504s on the other hand have that nice fillet radius where the C pillar meets the rear quarter panel which helps prevent cracks, until rust eats out from the rear window corners and into the c pillar fillet radius. I think this fillet radius may have been part of the reason why 504 production outlasted 505 production in Africa and Argentina. The shorter rear overhang would help aswell.

Most Australian 404 owners have not experienced serious cracking, however, because their cars have rusted out long before they got to the stage of cracking up.

Dave
 
GTi Revolution:
4cm cracks in your 205 :
Click to expand...
Only 4cm! :)

From what I've heard it's nothing unusual for cracks in a 205GTI to be alot longer than that.

Dave

<small>[ 10 October 2003, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
 
Guys, pardon the ignorance but what exactly is seam welding? ie what parts are welded and what method is used?

Cheers
Steve
 
Steve, as you know in certain corners joints etc, some body panels are just spot welded, brazed and arck welded, but ussualy on most cars its the minimal welding(cost and safety varie) and ussualy on 1 side.
Some hi-po cars weld inside these joints or porvide that the whole edge is welded together, such as in parts of the floor pan, guards, etc..
Each car varies and its a manual laboured job that is pretty well much standard in any tintop race cars..
Race and Show Morris CopperS Minis are a classic example, a common way of being able to cut/flush the external gutters/lips on the cars body panels is to seam weld inside. - chris

ps, TY for your email and i replied with only more Q;s....sorry... BTW WRX2PUG is helping me with Autronic SMC computer knowlege/coments

<small>[ 10 October 2003, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: CHRI'S16 ]</small>
 
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