Could you run it with reg valve open on low and turn the steering back and forth to get fluid in Ken as an idea?
Series 1 Xantia Power Steering very heavy and blowing rubber pipes.
- Thread starter Ken W
- Start date
Because it has a separate pumps for HP and Power Steering, anything you do on the HP side does not affect the power steering side. I have decided to work on replacing the supply pipe so I can get a strong double webbed rubber pipe section fitted.
Ken
FWIW, years ago we fitted a steel reinforced flexible hose on the BX to slide over and bridge a failed section in a high pressure pipe that was almost impossible to remove. Silver solder was used for the jointing and the repair is fine a decade later.
Still not winning with the Power Steering
Well it is time for an update. I am still not winning this Xantia war. I have had the rack in and out 3 times now with various pinion valves and the system is still almost unresponsive and unreliable.
More to follow.
Cheers, Ken
Well it is time for an update. I am still not winning this Xantia war. I have had the rack in and out 3 times now with various pinion valves and the system is still almost unresponsive and unreliable.
More to follow.
Cheers, Ken
Bugger. Something is wrong (you know that...) but it's either very obscure indeed or staring you in the face. That sounds like a huge amount of work - any way of testing the rack outside the car?
I'm presuming the various pivots are OK and allowing the steering mechanism to move freely? Is it different if the car is up on blocks with the suspension hanging free?
Good luck. I can feel the pain from Perth!!
So I put a pinion valve that David S sent me on the rack and put it back in. The valve leaked from the top seal before I even started the engine. So I took the rack back out and bought a reseal kit from the local mechanic. After I 3d printed a seal reducer, I fitted this kit to David's pinion valve and refitted the rack back in the car. No leak now but still no power steering and the supply pipe kept on blowing.
So I took the supply pipe out (this required removal of the left driveshaft) and had a local hose repairer fit a new flexible segment (which he made 5 cm too long). This repaired pipe did stop the pipe blowing off and then the pinion valve seemed to start to work sometimes and with lots of judder but not reliably. I decided that I must have not been successful with my valve rebuild, so I sent my original valve to Pleiades for a rebuild and test.
So the rack had to come out again to have the rebuilt valve fitted. With all the ins and outs, I have pulled the end off the pinion valve rubber return line and it now splits when I try to reattach it to the return pipe out of the valve. So that required a joiner fitted further up the line and a replacement bit of rubber pipe to get to the pinion valve exhaust pipe.
I have discovered that the easiest way to refit the dreaded rack heat shield is to fit it before putting the rack back in. It will just sneak back in on the rack if you pull the rack to the right to reduce the overall length of the rack as you put it back into the car.
Anyway, the rack is back in the car again and guess what, the steering feels just the same as the valve that I rebuilt.
The rack spins freely from lock to lock with the wheels in the air. I seem to have to put about 90 degrees of turn on the steering wheel to get the valve to trigger any sort of power assist when driving the car around the back yard.
Any ideas on what I should do next?
I do have a spare HP and Power Steering pump so I thought I might fit that in case the power steering pump has worn out. There does not seem to be a leak in the LHM suction pipe as the HP part of the hydraulic system is working normally.
Any other suggestions?
Cheers, Ken.
So I took the supply pipe out (this required removal of the left driveshaft) and had a local hose repairer fit a new flexible segment (which he made 5 cm too long). This repaired pipe did stop the pipe blowing off and then the pinion valve seemed to start to work sometimes and with lots of judder but not reliably. I decided that I must have not been successful with my valve rebuild, so I sent my original valve to Pleiades for a rebuild and test.
So the rack had to come out again to have the rebuilt valve fitted. With all the ins and outs, I have pulled the end off the pinion valve rubber return line and it now splits when I try to reattach it to the return pipe out of the valve. So that required a joiner fitted further up the line and a replacement bit of rubber pipe to get to the pinion valve exhaust pipe.
I have discovered that the easiest way to refit the dreaded rack heat shield is to fit it before putting the rack back in. It will just sneak back in on the rack if you pull the rack to the right to reduce the overall length of the rack as you put it back into the car.
Anyway, the rack is back in the car again and guess what, the steering feels just the same as the valve that I rebuilt.
The rack spins freely from lock to lock with the wheels in the air. I seem to have to put about 90 degrees of turn on the steering wheel to get the valve to trigger any sort of power assist when driving the car around the back yard.
Any ideas on what I should do next?
I do have a spare HP and Power Steering pump so I thought I might fit that in case the power steering pump has worn out. There does not seem to be a leak in the LHM suction pipe as the HP part of the hydraulic system is working normally.
Any other suggestions?
Cheers, Ken.
Good grief. I've no idea. Have you checked a UK forum where they have lots more of these cars?
The HP side does have an accumulator to even out supply irregularities I guess. You have to think the rack side is OK after all that....
Good luck.
The HP side does have an accumulator to even out supply irregularities I guess. You have to think the rack side is OK after all that....
Good luck.
I was feeling pretty dejected last night. I went back down this morning and put it back on stands the have another go at getting the steering column better centered on the rack so that there was the same number of turns from straight ahead to either end of lock. I seem to have had some success with that after my first try was half a turn out. I also noticed that with the engine running, I was getting some nice squeals from the power steering pump at both ends of lock which sounded promising.
Then I took the car off the stands and took it for a drive and the power steering was working much better. These valves seem to take quite a bit of time to settle and flatten and expand the seals to start working properly again. When you install the seals, they are very loose in the groove both laterally and axially and I think they rely on the liquid pressure to seal in both directions too.
Anyway, hopefully the valve performance will continue to improve from here. So now I need to check the toe-in and get a similar amount of thread showing on each outer steering joint.
Then all I need to do is get the aircon blower fan working again (that might involve fitting a relay) and stop the airbag light flashing.
That will leave only the rear arms needing a recondition (arm bearings, wheel bearings and new discs).
Cheers, Ken
Then I took the car off the stands and took it for a drive and the power steering was working much better. These valves seem to take quite a bit of time to settle and flatten and expand the seals to start working properly again. When you install the seals, they are very loose in the groove both laterally and axially and I think they rely on the liquid pressure to seal in both directions too.
Anyway, hopefully the valve performance will continue to improve from here. So now I need to check the toe-in and get a similar amount of thread showing on each outer steering joint.
Then all I need to do is get the aircon blower fan working again (that might involve fitting a relay) and stop the airbag light flashing.
That will leave only the rear arms needing a recondition (arm bearings, wheel bearings and new discs).
Cheers, Ken
Wow!
After doing the clutch on the ct and having to remove some of the subframe bolts to do so. The amount of faff involved to get the rack out looked like a lot of work.
Thanks for sharing the story. Glad you got it working again.
After doing the clutch on the ct and having to remove some of the subframe bolts to do so. The amount of faff involved to get the rack out looked like a lot of work.
Thanks for sharing the story. Glad you got it working again.
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That's encouraging.
Don't delay that relay (any longer, that is
)…..
I don't know whether anyone has done it on a Xantia, but Pleiades swear by heavy oil for BX rear arms and used to have some in stock. Fit proper seals and a screwed plug. It sounds like a very sensible modification, so the lubrication works even with a very small angular movement. I imagine the smaller the angular movement, the smaller the needles need to be to work properly. No jokes about strawberries please!! What a shocker....
Hope more workout gets it all working properly in the steering department.
Don't delay that relay (any longer, that is
)…..I don't know whether anyone has done it on a Xantia, but Pleiades swear by heavy oil for BX rear arms and used to have some in stock. Fit proper seals and a screwed plug. It sounds like a very sensible modification, so the lubrication works even with a very small angular movement. I imagine the smaller the angular movement, the smaller the needles need to be to work properly. No jokes about strawberries please!! What a shocker....
Hope more workout gets it all working properly in the steering department.
Relay fitted and now the interior fan is working again and the aircon gets cool. I'm afraid the ignition switch gave up on the fan late last year about the same time as the power steering failed. So I have activated the interior fan relay from the switched radio/cigarette lighter circuit which uses different contacts in the ignition switch.
First I checked Fuse B under the bonnet and Fuse 20 in the car were not blown and they were not. Then I checked for battery voltage on the fuses with ignition on. Voltage on both sides of Fuse B but nothing on either side of F20. Then I took the steering wheel off to take the shroud off the steering switches. I just managed to get the ignition red connector up from below and sure enough, the ignition switch was open circuit when turned to run. So I shorted out the loom socket and the fan started up. I hacked the wires off the switch - nice thick wires and connected them to a relay base - 30 and 87a I think. I found a screw to earth one side of the coil and connected the other side of the coil to the cigarette lighter. It is all cool air blowing now.
While I was in there, I tested the airbag rotary connector and it still seems to have continuity. But the airbag light is still flashing. I will have to inspect the pre-tensioners again. Haynes says the Series 1 airbag system ECU is in the airbag. How does the air bag system work when there are only 2 wires going to the airbag and it has to be able to read impact sensors, talk to the Lexia and trigger pre-tensioners as well???
Does anyone have a circuit diagram of the series 1 airbag system? Unfortunately my version of SEDRE does not cover Series 1 Xantia.
Cheers, Ken
First I checked Fuse B under the bonnet and Fuse 20 in the car were not blown and they were not. Then I checked for battery voltage on the fuses with ignition on. Voltage on both sides of Fuse B but nothing on either side of F20. Then I took the steering wheel off to take the shroud off the steering switches. I just managed to get the ignition red connector up from below and sure enough, the ignition switch was open circuit when turned to run. So I shorted out the loom socket and the fan started up. I hacked the wires off the switch - nice thick wires and connected them to a relay base - 30 and 87a I think. I found a screw to earth one side of the coil and connected the other side of the coil to the cigarette lighter. It is all cool air blowing now.
While I was in there, I tested the airbag rotary connector and it still seems to have continuity. But the airbag light is still flashing. I will have to inspect the pre-tensioners again. Haynes says the Series 1 airbag system ECU is in the airbag. How does the air bag system work when there are only 2 wires going to the airbag and it has to be able to read impact sensors, talk to the Lexia and trigger pre-tensioners as well???
Does anyone have a circuit diagram of the series 1 airbag system? Unfortunately my version of SEDRE does not cover Series 1 Xantia.
Cheers, Ken
How about dropping in another rack Ken?
Actually if Ken moved to Perth, or preferably Norseman, he could drive up and down the Nullarbor without bloody power steering.
John
I think the problem is Sorted
I have been taking the Xantia on a few short drives. The power steering seems to work at first during the drive when the engine is cool, then gives up after 4-5 km. Then I noticed that the HP pump seemed to be having trouble topping up the accumulator at idle speed. A small blip on the throttle seemed to sort it but then I started to think about whether the pick-up filter in the LHM tank could be blocked. A little bell went off in my mind about a comment Geoff Weber once said to me about having to get the filters in the LHM tank cleaned because the power steering was getting heavy.
I checked the filter to day and yes it was black from top to bottom. I washed it in petrol and wiped away the black crud (very fine), washed it again and dried it with some comressed air and reinstalled it and the power steering is transformed. It is all back to normal on a quick trip around the block. Time will tell if it is fixed for good.
Cheers, Ken :headbang:
I have been taking the Xantia on a few short drives. The power steering seems to work at first during the drive when the engine is cool, then gives up after 4-5 km. Then I noticed that the HP pump seemed to be having trouble topping up the accumulator at idle speed. A small blip on the throttle seemed to sort it but then I started to think about whether the pick-up filter in the LHM tank could be blocked. A little bell went off in my mind about a comment Geoff Weber once said to me about having to get the filters in the LHM tank cleaned because the power steering was getting heavy.
I checked the filter to day and yes it was black from top to bottom. I washed it in petrol and wiped away the black crud (very fine), washed it again and dried it with some comressed air and reinstalled it and the power steering is transformed. It is all back to normal on a quick trip around the block. Time will tell if it is fixed for good.
Cheers, Ken :headbang:
Sorry that pinion leaked. Being a loose part, the odds were it had been disturbed or might have been removed because it had been leaking. Anyway, at least you have a spare now or can pass it on.
Did my sketch of the pinion kit tools make it to your e-mail inbox Ken? I've reduced it in size to post here. I hope it is legible.
A is the cone that slips into the reduced diameter end of B and C to expand the seals for fitting. The fit is a little sloppy and the dimensions show that, so you can make it a tighter fit if you so desire.
D is the ring compressor and the bore is smooth and tapered at both ends. It also doubles as an aid to refitting the large bearing to the pinion case.
CCCNSW now has one of these factory repair kits in the tool library.
Did my sketch of the pinion kit tools make it to your e-mail inbox Ken? I've reduced it in size to post here. I hope it is legible.
A is the cone that slips into the reduced diameter end of B and C to expand the seals for fitting. The fit is a little sloppy and the dimensions show that, so you can make it a tighter fit if you so desire.
D is the ring compressor and the bore is smooth and tapered at both ends. It also doubles as an aid to refitting the large bearing to the pinion case.
CCCNSW now has one of these factory repair kits in the tool library.
hi Ken if you still reading this you better remove the hydraulic tank and scrub inside the tank with a long flexible brush . Get a bottle of kerosene mix with some diesel and petrol as cleaning solvent. My Xantia long ago have the exact problem and this is the main cause. The fine black paste is usually due to the damage black plastic piston spacer inside the hydraulic strut . Good luck