Scenic info / opinions wanted

Mark Streeter

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The latest Wheels mag is very negative about the Scenic, especially rattles and other quality items. What Car in the UK are also pretty disparaging about the Scenic quality, especially when compared to Japanese cars. I drove the Scenic 2.0 auto and Holden Zafira auto (basically a 2.2 7-seat Astra) recently. Holden were quoting $36 on road for the Zafira, Renault $33 for the Dynamic auto (in Sydney's east). The same Renault dealer admitted that the Nissan vehicles they sell along side were better made. He said the Scenic rattled because it was"hand made". they offer a 6 year warranty but it makes you wonder...
 

Peter Thomas

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Mark, Thanks for your comments too. I can't help thnking the Scenic is a brilliant "ideas" car which really should work but for whatever reason simply fails to get there. The rear seats are 3 accross which allows for a small table to appear whern the middle seat back is folded forward but doesn't answer my main comlpaint which is the seats themselves are too narrow for adults and extra taable space and elbow room is not the solution.I used to own a 16TS Auto (brilliant but needed a 4 speed box) and I really wanted to like the Scenic but as a package it fell short. Pity it really deserved better.
BTW the prices quoted in Brookvale (nearest dealer to me here in Palm Beach) are:
Expression 1.6 Man on road $28 879
Dynamic 2.0 Man/Auto o/rd $31 238/33,298
Priviledge 2.0 M/A o/rd $36 244/38 304.Cheers, Pete.Sydney.
 

Simon

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Interesting to see the comments regarding the Scenic, I tend to agree that it seems a great idea spoilt in its execution.

Sure there may be 18 storage compartments but all are too small to accommodate a UBD/Sydways/Melways/Perthways etc mapbook. The rear seats are also too small seemingly coming from something like a Hillman Imp, and by now you would think there is a beter way of storing them in the car rather than taking them out like a 1961 R4 rear seat.

It doesn't really seem to be an advance in design over say a 1985 Mitsubishi Nimbus. It is unfortunate that Renault still cannot get rid of interior rattles too. One other thing just reading todays paper, the Scenic is also the most expensive people mover, not to mention vehicle, to repair in the sample of 42 that has just gone through the latest NRMA crash test. The cost being $7539, or 25.2% of its purchase price, to repair the vehicle after a 15km/h crash with a solid object or 30km/h prang with the rear of another vehicle. (Other vehicles included Falcon $2295, WRX $4207, Subaru Outback $3829, Mazda Premacy $6302, Holden Vectra $4926)

This news is bad for insurance premiums and sort of perpetuates the myth I have been trying to dispel for many years, when I get asked, "Aren't parts expensive for your Renolt".

Simon
 

Peter Thomas

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Simon, It is sad to hear of the poor standard of build quality and price of spare parts prices. My brother owns a SAAB (for the first and last time he tells me) and is about to change over to something slse for the very same reasons. High insurance costs and service costs. BTW my Citroens (CX and D) and Renault (16 TS Auto) were replaced with my current Commodore also for that reason. Great ideas amd "concepts" are not enough.If the car makers cannot get the basics right then all the extra bells and whistles won't get the customers in and the cars out. Come on...C5's in the showroom with rust in the panels? Scenics with built in rattles? In 2001 almost 2002. No thanks. Cheers,Pete, Sydney.
 

matty

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I also have not driven a Scenic. But early in the year I spent a fair bit of time in France. We had a hire car that was an Espace. From what I can figure out this was just the last model of the Scenic, but we only got the new model in OZ.

In short the car was great. I drove and gripped the road well for a car full of 5 ozzie blokes and all our gear.

We gave it a relly hard time up the Alps and through the streets of Paris and it never missed a beat.

The Scenic looks great and you have to love those chilled compartments... Ahh the French. Just when you thought you had seen everything they put an esky in a car...

Good luck

Matt
 

Jez 405

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Originally posted by matty:
<strong>I also have not driven a Scenic. But early in the year I spent a fair bit of time in France. We had a hire car that was an Espace. From what I can figure out this was just the last model of the Scenic, but we only got the new model in OZ.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Without wanting to sound too pedantic, the Espace is Renault's large, seven seat people mover similar to the Toyota Tarago and Chrysler Voyager. The Megane Scenic is a smaller, five seat mini-MPV based on the Corolla-sized Megane.
 

BogMaster

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The big issue is whether Wheels is to be believed.

There is another publication around at the moment purporting to be an advisory guide to new and used car purchase..the word Lemon is somewhere in the title (I just can't remember the rest).

It completely bags out every single Renault model since the 12 and amazingly the bulk of the commentary looks like it is a straight cut and paste from one model to the next. The mechanic's eye view of the problems is really jaundiced. Basically the guy or girl who wrote the stuff was talking straight from the heart of his or her bottom. Have a look at it next time you are in the news agent.

I read the Car of The Year crap in Wheels, and it struck me that motoring journalists are, as a breed, completely up themselves.

Do I believe that the Scenic is the uncomfortable, semi dangerous rattle trap they claim it to be?..in a word "NO". ..and no it's not anymore of an ideas car than other Renaults have been.

Having said that, Renault has to get the product right. It's got to be in the showrooms, it has be well "pre delivered", well supported and above all competitively priced.

It just isn't going to re-establish a market share here otherwise.

At the moment there is a plethora of Scenic like mini people movers coming out of Korea, Japan and Europe - imitation has got to be the sincerest form of flattery.
 

JohnW

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Originally posted by BogMaster:
<strong>The big issue is whether Wheels is to be believed.

There is another publication around at the moment purporting to be an advisory guide to new and used car purchase..the word Lemon is somewhere in the title (I just can't remember the rest).

It completely bags out every single Renault model since the 12 and amazingly the bulk of the commentary looks like it is a straight cut and paste from one model to the next. The mechanic's eye view of the problems is really jaundiced. Basically the guy or girl who wrote the stuff was talking straight from the heart of his or her bottom. Have a look at it next time you are in the news agent.

I read the Car of The Year crap in Wheels, and it struck me that motoring journalists are, as a breed, completely up themselves.

Do I believe that the Scenic is the uncomfortable, semi dangerous rattle trap they claim it to be?..in a word "NO". ..and no it's not anymore of an ideas car than other Renaults have been.

Having said that, Renault has to get the product right. It's got to be in the showrooms, it has be well "pre delivered", well supported and above all competitively priced.

It just isn't going to re-establish a market share here otherwise.

At the moment there is a plethora of Scenic like mini people movers coming out of Korea, Japan and Europe - imitation has got to be the sincerest form of flattery.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I completely agree with you on this! The standard of motoring journalism is dismal at present, with some of those writing the stuff well out of touch with what most people really want/need/could use in their cars. I felt there was hope for a while, with Which Cars, who even had an orthopaedic man evaluating seats properly, but it didn't last alas.

The Scenic is an extraordinarily safe car from what I gather and the one I drove was well put together and didn't rattle at all. I just found the seats to be less comfortable than I hoped and my wife, who is short, found them actually too high and catching her under the thighs. If I wanted a car in that class particularly, I'd take some persuasion NOT to buy a Scenic. But the Scenic didn't persuade me to buy into the class to achieve a 4-5 seat car and I found a 2nd hand Xantia instead for less money and already depreciated!

I haven't yet seen a Peugeot 307, but expect I'll like it more than the Scenic too, but again it isn't quite the same class of car so it isn't a completely fair comparison.

Pity we never got the Espace in Australia. It is the ultimate people mover and copied by everyone ever since.

JohnW
 

JohnW

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Originally posted by Stuey:
<strong>Hey John,

Orthopaedic man - is he from the historical period after Neanderthal man, the one that tests all Italian cars? :)

Stuey</strong><hr></blockquote>

Good question! Judging by the new Toyota Land Cruiser Traytop I drove to Sandstone and back the other week, orthopaedic man works in Japan designing 4WD interiors for European-sized people!! Nearly killed me. Landcruisers (the proper working ones, not the poncy ones you see around town) were too small inside 30 years ago and have since got worse.
 

davemcbean

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Originally posted by Stuey:
<strong>Hey John,

Orthopaedic man - is he from the historical period after Neanderthal man, the one that tests all Italian cars? :)

Stuey</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hey, don't be cruel to Neanderthals, they were actually very modern in brain size, height and limb lengths. Having sat in an Alfa or 2, I can safely say a Neandertal would have had just as much trouble reaching the steering wheel as I.

I have to agree with all the comments on motoring journalists. I can't stand the style of writing in most of the latest car mags (although some of the classic car mags aren't too bad). When you dig out 30 year old copies of Wheels you find that journalists then actually new something about cars. Give a modern journo a spanner and I'd be surprised if he new what it was.

Dave
 

Simon

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I would agree that the current crop of AUS car magazines seem poorly written, or it could just be that I am getting old and language is evolving. I find it hard to follow and read some of the AUS magazine articles (no I don't need specs yet!).

But it was similar 30 odd years ago, the first Wheels test of the Renault 12 contained many inaccuracies and was written by Bill Tuckey in his usual hyperbole. The test makes it sound like the car is fitted with an 8G or 16TS type motor referring to a cross flow head etc.. Also the very first performance figures of the 1289cc 12 (in January 1971) were used by Wheels right up to February 1974 in their various Renault 12 road tests notwithstanding it was fitted with the 1251cc motor in mid 1971. I know 12's are fairly consistent, but surely not to no difference in acceleration times over a number of cars and specifications. But overall the older tests did seem better than the current crop, the early 16TS Citroen DS 21 and Pug 504 1.8 (I think that one) were all well written, all by Peter Robinson, at that stage a French Car Fan.

As in a previous posting I like Evo and CAR, the English classic car mags suffer from the usual vagaries of owners not knowing anything and poor research by the journalist, but at least you can read the articles unlike many AUS mags!

Simon
 

Jez 405

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Originally posted by davemcbean:
<strong>

I have to agree with all the comments on motoring journalists. I can't stand the style of writing in most of the latest car mags (although some of the classic car mags aren't too bad). When you dig out 30 year old copies of Wheels you find that journalists then actually new something about cars. Give a modern journo a spanner and I'd be surprised if he new what it was.

Dave</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's right. I stopped reading Motor Mag in 1996 when I was in year 9 because their 'reporting' was full of profanity, sexual connotations and comparisons which I found too immature even for me then. I want to read about cars, not the fact that one V8 is quicker to 400m than another V8 therefore its better, let alone their ramblings remeniscient of a sexually deprived individual spilling his guts to a phsychiatrist. (can you believe they ranked a CSV Corsa - tarted up V8 Commodore - higher than a Lotus Elise in PCOTY????)

I feel that Wheels is sliding down the same gurgler with Ewan Page as Editor. I must say some of their staff really need to get a grip of what is important in cars these days - rather than whingeing about a lack of cupholders or indicator stalks on the left hand (correct) side.
I managed to get hold of many old issues of Wheels where Tuckey, Robinson and McKenzie were in charge. Marvellous reading.
 

Stuey

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CAR's sister mag, Thoroughbred and Classic Car, is pretty good, and also I've bought Classic and Sportscar for about 13 years now. All pretty good stuff. I can't even read the Aussie mags, sad to say. The journos seem to decide on a preconceived style they think is cool or something, then stick to it, rather than being themselves. Total crap. How can you compare this with CAR - LJK Setright, Rowan Atkinson, Russell Bulgin, Alexei Sayle - bloody brilliant entertainment, even if it wasn't about cars... Then you've got the locations, and the photography (I'm a photo buff and camera collector...) Ahhh...

Stuey
 

Peter Thomas

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Sad to say I must agree with the general thoughts expressed here on Australian car magazines and their journalists in general. The overall lack of unbiased and ill informed opinions has meant I too have stopped buying Motor and Wheels. As a source of information Car News is far ahead of both of the others who seem to be limited to "sound bytes" of information and detail , issued as "quick fangs" and driving "impressions". Regretably this attitude and preference for style over substance has also permeated the car showrooms ; try finding a sales person who actually know what all the abbreviations really mean and how they relate to the cars. Perhaps falling sales figures will reverse the trend. Cheers, Pete, Sydney.
 

JohnW

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I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who had given up on most mags. I have Wheels magazines back to No. 1 (not a full set, unfortunately) and sundry others back to the 1960s, and things haven't improved, that's for sure. Inaccuracy was always there (although Autocar tests were exemplary, if not always relevant to Australia) but the apologies for writing that the current crop of journalists put over is just too much.
 

Simon

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The old Autocar tests are technical masterpieces, but I'm always surprised how none of the cars they ever tested was described as being bad! :)

Simon
 

matty

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Originally posted by Jez 405:
<strong>

Without wanting to sound too pedantic, the Espace is Renault's large, seven seat people mover similar to the Toyota Tarago and Chrysler Voyager. The Megane Scenic is a smaller, five seat mini-MPV based on the Corolla-sized Megane.</strong><hr></blockquote>
 
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