Renault Clip scanner needed for 2003 Scenic and 2015 Clio problems

[vivid]

no it will be coded. I think it has to be pre 1998 to be the early plip?

RX4 is a ph1 scenic / megane and all look very similar dash and key wise. If the central locking is disabled you can start the car and re-enable once running but you have to repeat the procedure.

Incidentally theres another procedure when it wont even unlock, holding down the key button for 10 secs etc. Ill grab the video for completeness but doesn't apply to Jaahns problem.

These as far as I can tell are Jaahns symptoms.
Same thing happened to one of my RX4s as Jaahn's after a battery change.

Pretty sure the key is coded by the age alone. Jaahn can confirm. If thats the case its likely input via the central locking and blinky immobiliser light.

Of course I could be completely wrong, the PLIP you mentioned uses a 'rolling code' my keys have a code stamped INSIDE them. The blinking immobiliser sounds to operate as you've described, question is 'does it do the flashy code input thing?' I'm going to have to have a play with my spare ECU now.

 

[jaahn]

My only comment for now is who thought all that BS was a good idea anyway. Why not just make the bl**dy thing reliable so it just worked till the car dies. Like most other brands.
To compound the problem the forums and the Manuals will not reveal the location or the wiring details of the immobiliser or how to fix them. Hell. The UK forums delete any reference to disabling the immobiliser or bypassing it, so the threads never get to the end bit you need.

But I will see how I go. I have already tried some of those fixes pressing buttons etc, but mostly they are for resyncronising the key to the remote system I believe. Who really knows ? Also there are many types of the system over the years. Probably all made by the cheapest supplier they could find in Eastern Europe.
Hmm
Yes I have looked inside the key. Hard to read what is there after 20 years in a pocket ??

 

[COL]

yea it seems there are some windows executables floating around with the magic formulas. There is a program to download in the comments of the youtube video.

I have a spare RX4 Im tempted to pull the ECU etc out of and see if I can't reprogram a key with it.


Archive.org might have some files or clues to where to find them. The UK renault forums too are all broken links now. "BBA Reman" do you have an address? "trip computer and the accelerator pedal." thats pretty cool. We need to test and document some of these things. on the scenic1 / meganes it seems its inputted with the central door lock and flashing immobiliser lights.

The Lag2V6 had a very hard to beleive sequence to recode a 3rd key including opening and closing the door and the accelerator pedal. bloody worked tho. I didn't write it down!

When I click on the link in my thread about my Laguna 1 V6 immobiliser it takes you to this website which does not have all the useful stuff that was on BBA Reman.

Welcome to Remanx | Automotive Electronics Repairs & Exchange

Your Trusted Partner in Automotive Electronics Repairs Important Notice: Changes in Service Provider Dear Valued Customer, We understand that you may have been redirected here from BBA-Reman, and we'd like to take this opportunity to inform you about the exciting changes happening. we are...

remanx.com

When I got the 4 digit code from the downloaded software it was inputted into the immobiliser by turning on the key to the ignition spot then you would see the immobiliser light flashing in the dash. Pressed the trip computer button on the wiper stalk the number of times for the first digit then press the accelerator and then press the trip computer button the number of times for the second digit the the accelerator and so on the the rest of the digits. If the code was correct the immobiliser light would then extinguish.

 

[COL]

Also the Laguna 1 was still using infrared type remote so not sure if that makes a difference.

 

[COL]

My only comment for now is who thought all that BS was a good idea anyway. Why not just make the bl**dy thing reliable so it just worked till the car dies. Like most other brands.
To compound the problem the forums and the Manuals will not reveal the location or the wiring details of the immobiliser or how to fix them. Hell. The UK forums delete any reference to disabling the immobiliser or bypassing it, so the threads never get to the end bit you need.

But I will see how I go. I have already tried some of those fixes pressing buttons etc, but mostly they are for resyncronising the key to the remote system I believe. Who really knows ? Also there are many types of the system over the years. Probably all made by the cheapest supplier they could find in Eastern Europe.
Hmm
Yes I have looked inside the key. Hard to read what is there after 20 years in a pocket ??

I have noticed that Jaahn you find a thread that relates to your problem and there is no conclusion to what was done to fix the problem. There are lots of threads like it in the UK forums, and its not just the immobiliser ones.

 

[AlexB]

no it will be coded. I think it has to be pre 1998 to be the early plip?

Did a bit more digging, from 09/98 it has a new system
ENCRYPTED KEY TRANSPONDER ENGINE IMMOBILISER
Which uses transponder ring to read coded key for the immobilser and (optional ) PLIP button on the key solely for central locking.

Jaahn, to confirm what you have, what's the chassis designation and engine and gbox type for your car?
JA0C ?

 

[vivid]

awesome thanks for clarifying.

 

[AlexB]

no it will be coded. I think it has to be pre 1998 to be the early plip?

To compound the problem the forums and the Manuals will not reveal the location or the wiring details of the immobiliser or how to fix them.

Also the Laguna 1 was still using infrared type remote so not sure if that makes a difference.

Looks like Renault changed from addendums to the MR312 repair manual to issuing Technical Notes in Dialogys.
Attached is summary of all the systems, AND the Tech Note number to find additional information.

 

[jaahn]

Ah, I thought 2003 was series2.
I think yours has the PLIP immobiliser, do you have the dialogys MR312MEGANE8.pdf describing the PLIP?
But you never know, it could also have the Coded key immobiliser, check to see if there is a coil around the ign key barrel to read the key head? If it has the Coded Key, 10 seconds after ign is turned off the immobiliser warning light starts flashing once per second.

You mention once started it will start a few times and then stops again. Even if doors are not locked the PLIP ECU will automatically start blinking the immobiliser warning light and send immobilise signal to engine ecu 10 minutes (or 1 min for some markets) after ign is turned off. See extracts for PLIP below.

What fuse number and amperage are you disconnecting? I think there may be 2 fuses involved


View attachment 239847




View attachment 239845

For the sake of complete information. This is what I understand from my research.
The first type remote keys were infared plip type in the 90s but changed to radio remote around 99 maybe.
The first type has a receiver in the roof under the aerial. The second has a coil around the lock barrel to communicate with the immobiliser. Not sure how the years vary in different car models.
My car is a Scenic series 1 phase 2 I believe with a type 2 radio type. It is the last of that model type, build 07-03. but is called a 2004 on the rego.( which will get the wrong spare parts)
The reset procedurs that involves pushing the locking button to match the flashing light, or holding the remote key button down and doing various switching on and off etc I believe applies to the first type plip. The second type remote does not respond to that sh*t IMHO. I have tried most of them.
Here is a statement from; https://www.remotekey.co.uk/renault-immobiliser-faqs/

RENAULT IMMOBILISER FAQS​

The Renault immobiliser sytem will NEVER stop the vehicle once it has been started. If your Renault has stopped while the engine was running the problem is NOT the immobiliser.
The immobiliser will only prevent the car from initially starting.
The Renault Immobiliser system is very complex. It is not just a case of changing a couple of wires and the immobiliser is overridden.
In order for us to carry out any work we will either need to see the immobiliser control box, or the key number. All Renault vehicles have different systems. The control boxes may vary slightly between vehicles and models. With the immobiliser control box removed your car will not work. When we have finished the procedure you will be able to just plug it back in and the car will start.
It is a great help to us if you can send the original remote key fob with the control box. If you have a remote key fob that is still operational, it will still work when we return your control box. If this key fob then stopped working, your immobiliser would still be deactivated.​

The Megane and Scenic control box is known to suffer from water contamination. If this is the case a replacement box is required. WE CANNOT REPAIR WATER DAMANGED CONTROL BOXES / ECU’S. But we CAN clone the information from the damaged box to a new box.​

also Videos; How to open a Renault key, and How to read the E number inside the key with ultra violet light

They did sell this device but listed as out of stock now.
THE RENAULT IMMOBILISER BYPASS (PIN ENTRY PLUG) also applies to Vauxhall Mavano
The Renault immobiliser bypass (pin entry plug) will bypass the immobiliser on your Renault by just plugging it in. It will bypass the immobilser even if your key has stopped working. The bypass will NOT repair your key, the car / van will start on any key that will fit the locks / ignition. The bypass will NOT repair the central locking, the bypass will not stop the central locking from working.
The plug is programmed with your key number or emergency start number. It is very important to get this number correct. It will only start the vehicle with the correct number, if you get the number wrong the plug will flash a fault on its led light. This will cause NO damage to your vehicle. The device can be easily re-programmed with a new number, you will NOT have to pay for a new one.

The bypass:-​

Will let you start your vehicle with any plain key (which fits the locks and ignition)
Can be left in place for the rest of the life of the vehicle.
It can be removed and your vehicle will resort back to the factory immobiliser. You still have an immobiliser fitted so it will not affect your insurance (Renault say this bypass is impossible) we do not recommend removing the device too often.
It only works when the ignition is turned on. It does not take any power from your car when the ignition is turned off.
When the ignition is turned off the factory immobiliser will flash the red LED light on the dashboard so it still looks as if you have a working immobiliser.
The red LED light on the dashboard will flash differently to normal; this does not cause any problems
Once the vehicle is started the plug can be removed and the vehicle will continue running until the ignition is turned off. This can be useful for diagnostic use.
Will not affect any other part of your vehicle, it does not change any settings.
Over 1000 sold
hmm i have asked about this unit ?

 

[AlexB]

For the sake of complete information. This is what I understand from my research.
The first type remote keys were infared plip type in the 90s but changed to radio remote around 99 maybe.
The first type has a receiver in the roof under the aerial. The second has a coil around the lock barrel to communicate with the immobiliser. Not sure how the years vary in different car models.
My car is a Scenic series 1 phase 2 I believe with a type 2 radio type. It is the last of that model type, build 07-03. but is called a 2004 on the rego.( which will get the wrong spare parts)
The reset procedurs that involves pushing the locking button to match the flashing light, or holding the remote key button down and doing various switching on and off etc I believe applies to the first type plip. The second type remote does not respond to that sh*t IMHO. I have tried most of them.

From the summary document I posted above your car most likely has this coded key system.
The reset procedures you mention are for the central locking PLIP, they have NO effect on the immobiliser for this system.
I have found some fault finding documents, I'll see which match your TYPE JA13, ENG F4R, AUTO

 

[AlexB]

Looks like the JA1B-JA1D-JA1L-JAOC-JA13 Scenics have the Euro3 F4R engine with Siemens Sirius32 ECU.
Has waste spark coils so will only have a crank angle/engine speed sensor which infuriatingly they sometimes call a TDC sensor, which I suppose it is if it has the 60 tooth flywheel with 2 missing at TDC.

TN4664A has part numbers for new engine speed sensor and harness connector wiring kit.
Customer complaint
Intermittently:
– Engine hesitation and stalling.
– Vehicle does not start.
Possible cause
– Poor contact between the connector and the Top
Dead Centre (TDC) sensor.
Operation to be carried out
– Replacement of TDC sensor and connector.

If you can get to the ECU, unplug the connector and check the resistance across pins 24 and 54 on the harness side to see if engine speed sensor measures between 200-270 Ω

 

[jaahn]

Well today after a 'bad start' when it would not start with or without using my fuse 'power switch', I thought I would try a resync by my uncertain memory of a method or two I read previously and in the docs Alex sent me. I locked and unlocked the car by the remote. Then switched the ign on, the red light flashed as normal and went off, then I pressed the remote button for 10+ seconds and turned the key of and back on again while holding the button. ??? I think.
Then it started, and after a while I drove it a bit, stopped it and restarted it a couple of times. I started it again later OK. I will test it tomorrow and more if it is starting OK regularly. Who would have thought that sort of mumbo jumbo might actually do something. Or is it just a coincidence ??

Thanks Alex for sending me those Factory Technical notes. I had a quick look at them this morning but difficult reading so not sure if they helped to get me on the right track. Maybe the 10 second remote press.
The saga continues with more hope.

 

[vivid]

Well today after a 'bad start' when it would not start with or without using my fuse 'power switch', I thought I would try a resync by my uncertain memory of a method or two I read previously and in the docs Alex sent me. I locked and unlocked the car by the remote. Then switched the ign on, the red light flashed as normal and went off, then I pressed the remote button for 10+ seconds and turned the key of and back on again while holding the button. ??? I think.
Then it started, and after a while I drove it a bit, stopped it and restarted it a couple of times. I started it again later OK. I will test it tomorrow and more if it is starting OK regularly. Who would have thought that sort of mumbo jumbo might actually do something. Or is it just a coincidence ??

Thanks Alex for sending me those Factory Technical notes. I had a quick look at them this morning but difficult reading so not sure if they helped to get me on the right track. Maybe the 10 second remote press.
The saga continues with more hope.

awesome, I've seen this in a couple of foreign language videos demonstrated too.
hopefully that is it!

 

[jaahn]

Update !
Hmmn not starting 100% of the time.It started well first thing today and i had a short drive and left it out on the street locked. I wanted to organise the driveway. But midday it would not start and i resorted to the tricks again. Tried the fuse switching off and on, then holding the remote button on for 10 secs and turning on and off etc. Then after a bit more trying things it did start and I relocated it going OK. No logic by that stage. My only sensible observation was that it was parked drivers side in the full sun and very warm inside ? So what ?.

It is easy to know if it will start from the first crank, it either starts second revolution or fails to start at all. No coughing or in between state. When it starts it idles fast and charges off when I engage the auto, for a few minutes, as it has done since I got it.
Anybody know any mantras, incantations or chants or similar to try.
Jaahn

 

[vivid]

Update !
Hmmn not starting 100% of the time.It started well first thing today and i had a short drive and left it out on the street locked. I wanted to organise the driveway. But midday it would not start and i resorted to the tricks again. Tried the fuse switching off and on, then holding the remote button on for 10 secs and turning on and off etc. Then after a bit more trying things it did start and I relocated it going OK. No logic by that stage. My only sensible observation was that it was parked drivers side in the full sun and very warm inside ? So what ?.

It is easy to know if it will start from the first crank, it either starts second revolution or fails to start at all. No coughing or in between state. When it starts it idles fast and charges off when I engage the auto, for a few minutes, as it has done since I got it.
Anybody know any mantras, incantations or chants or similar to try.
Jaahn

what was the immobiliser light doing? solid or flashing?

what is your battery like?

locked means the central locking / plip worked to unlock it.
so the central locking is working.

 

[AlexB]

I had my money on the mumbo jumbo press while rubbing your head nonsense was coincidence
Can you confirm that the immobiliser tell tale goes out every time you turn the key to ign on?

An auto does not have the problematic crank angle sensor. Not sure what they use on the autos for crank angle ??

I think this should read that the car does not have a cam angle sensor, just the single engine speed TDC crank angle sensor.

I would have removed the ECU connector and done the same for it, but it has a heavy metal shield that I could not remove ?? WTF ! I might be a bit thick but the top would not come off and the two bolts inside it could not be accessed by a socket through the holes, as the top part did not allow it ?? Why ! The manual say nothing of course so I left it be after 15 minutes wasted trying, even a bit of hammer work !

I strongly recommend trying again to unplug the ecu connector and check the crank angle sensor resistance at the ECU harness pins (my post #31 above) and write it down. Then find the sensor connector on the gbox bell housing, reseat it a few times and check the resistance again.

 

[vivid]

I strongly recommend trying again to unplug the ecu connector and check the crank angle sensor resistance at the ECU harness pins (my post #31 above) and write it down. Then find the sensor connector on the gbox bell housing, reseat it a few times and check the resistance again.

Jaahn if you are still having trouble I can give my spares scenic a go getting it off. Its likely identical.

 

[jaahn]

A few answers !
The immobiliser light does what it should do and always has done. After remote unlocking the red dash light goes from flashing ~1/sec to solid for ~5 sec then goes out. Indeed the previous owner told me to wait for it to go out before starting the engine.
I have a second non remote key, non genuine, which works and I have used it occasionally in the past and just now. It opens the PS door and then I have to unlock the others using the dash switch to get in the drivers door. It works in the ign just like the remote key, as does the dash light operation. I cannot say I have explored any differences between the two key and non starting or starting. But I will do that.

The battery was new several months back and i keep it topped up with solar and also charging while testing it.

Yes the central locking is working OK. Unless I have it switched off with my special switch and I know it is on or off by the dash light operatiom so no confusion there. The same fuse feeds both the immobiliser and the central locking so my switch controls them both together.

The TDC or CAS sensor !! Or whatever it is ? There is evidence that it might have been changed previously as the wires are spliced. I will look into that. I will attempt to uncover the ECU and look at that connector. Not confident but I have a grinder.

What does UCH stand for and where is it and/or the decoder ?

I think I am settling on a bad connection between the immobiliser/decoder and the ECU but no hard evidence. Where is the unit fitted and any wiring information ?

Thanks for the inputs and suggestions.

 

[AlexB]

The TDC or CAS sensor !! Or whatever it is ? There is evidence that it might have been changed previously as the wires are spliced. I will look into that. I will attempt to uncover the ECU and look at that connector. Not confident but I have a grinder.

What colour is the sensor?
Round Black?
Round Blue?
Square Black?

Don't worry about ecu connector for now, unplug the engine speed sensor and give the splices a little tug and see if they fall apart.

This blue sensor repair kit I mentioned uses these self-solder sleeves, I'll leave it to your imagination to picture how reliable a repair it is after a few years and an engine wash!!

 

[Peter Parle]

Hi Jaahn
I have a 2001 Renault Scenic RX4 with 256000 km and occasionally have difficulty starting. I have traced the problem to a dirty Top Dead Sensor. Removing it and cleaning it solves the problem. Usually I have to repeat this every 6 months. It seems too simple a solution to your complex problem but it may help. Good luck. Peter