R19 vs Fuego

Ken, stop your frothing, I never mentioned hairdressers in my statement.

Now that you mention it though, it really does fit the definition, doesn't it?

ie. A car that looks pretty sporty, but in reality doesn't quite fit the bill. Where is the close ratio gearbox? 4 wheel disc brakes? Fuel injection or turbo charging or even twin carbs? With a compression ratio of below 8:1 (due to emission controls I believe), it's hardly what you'd call a racer.

Now, if they'd brought in the Turbo, maybe that'd be a bit closer to the mark.

I'm not too sure about the "ageless" styling. My definition of "ageless" would have to be something along the lines of "unable to determine the age of the subject"

I don't think many people would have too much difficulty saying that the Fuego is most definitely a car of the early to mid 1980's. Just look at the size of the headlights and the tailights, plus the Porsche 924 hatch...

Mate, Fuegos are OK, don't blow a gasket, I was merely pointing out that it has a "style statement" whereas a R19 simply doesn't.
 
Europa said:
Ken, stop your frothing, I never mentioned hairdressers in my statement.

Now that you mention it though, it really does fit the definition, doesn't it?

ie. A car that looks pretty sporty, but in reality doesn't quite fit the bill. Where is the close ratio gearbox? 4 wheel disc brakes? Fuel injection or turbo charging or even twin carbs? With a compression ratio of below 8:1 (due to emission controls I believe), it's hardly what you'd call a racer.

Now, if they'd brought in the Turbo, maybe that'd be a bit closer to the mark.

I'm not too sure about the "ageless" styling. My definition of "ageless" would have to be something along the lines of "unable to determine the age of the subject"

I don't think many people would have too much difficulty saying that the Fuego is most definitely a car of the early to mid 1980's. Just look at the size of the headlights and the tailights, plus the Porsche 924 hatch...

Mate, Fuegos are OK, don't blow a gasket, I was merely pointing out that it has a "style statement" whereas a R19 simply doesn't.
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From my experience, the Fuego has aged well....people who dont know much about cars (ie. mostly females) always under estimate the age of my car.....Unable to determine the age of any car is quite immpossible for people who are into cars.....

http://graduate.gradsch.uga.edu/archive/Fuego.html
....ive blown my gasket :D

Your right about the Porsche 924 though...an Irish dude once described my Fuego as 'The poor mans Porsche' :blush: (Much the same as Americans call Cougars the poor mans Mustang, i suppose....)
 
Trying to compare a fuego to a R19 is like comparing well I have no idea... but I know it's not a very fair or equitable comparison..... :confused:

I mean would you compare a Fiat Regatta to a Lancia Beta... (about the closest I could come up with sorry!!)

If you're looking to spend $3k buy a Fuego... if you're going to stretch to $6k then your doubing your badget... at between $3k and $6k you could be a variety of Citroen BX's... or even a Pug 505... and of you're looking for space, relaibility, and something a little different (and Froggy) IMHO you'd be better off either way and have a much greater choice....

:cheers:
 
A'h Europa

Nothing frothing around here, unless its the froth from the Cheers smily. All in good fun and when all said and done, the Fuego DID come out with all those extras that you quoted (not sure about the close ratio gearbox and why you would want one anyway as you can manipulate this box with ease to produce surprising results) The rest is a matter of importation of the right parts, though I wonder why that decision was made then, to exclude Australia from the goody bits.

Perhaps we "colonials" were not to be trusted with additional horsepower, better braking, higher speed etc. :D O'h well with a bit of aussie ingenuity, some wire and string and some cannabalised parts from where knows what, some of us may end up achieving your ideal car. If all else fails get out the big hammer!! :mallet:

Just checked and my gasket appears in fine shape with no indication of reverberating disintegration!!!!

Regards.

Ken
 
Europa said:
I wonder if you could fail a roadworthy if your airbag is > 10 years old? Do they test for this? If they are as important as seatbelts, then you'd think they would.

Might be some cheap 1995 Laguna V6's coming down the pipe :eek:
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do they stick a sticker or something on the car when the bags are changed ?
i think they are going to have to some up with something and very soon as cars are starting to get to the age where they need to be changed according to the rules
now i think volvo have 15 year bags as well (justin ???)
but how many cars are coming up in the next 12-24 months that are airbag equipped and what is their average worth in the market ?
my question still stands
who is going to fork out x amount of money for a car that needs a 4 figure amount spent on it to pass for rego ?
the 2nd hand car market is going to be flooded with cheap cars
the other thing we have to be on the lookout for are the shonky dealers that will i'm sure try and get around the issue
next thing you know you are in an accident only to find that the airbag hasn't been replaced or it just goes off anyway due to it deteriorating in normal everyday driving
most cars they are hard wired in and don't have fuses for them either
the only other way around to turn them off is to remove the control box for them

then on top of that we also have nitrogen charged seat belts in cars
these also have to be replaced as well from what i have heard

where is it going to stop ????
 
Pugrambo

I wouldn't worry too much about how any government will come up with anything other than to put it in the too hard basket, (Unless the new car makers push for those cars to get crushed to make way for more sales............! yeah I'm a cynic!)

For example when LPG tankers first appeared on Victorian roads they were only licensed to be used for ten years as it was uncertain how the welds would stand up to use past this period. Ten years came and went, and my mate who was a private secretary to the then top nob politician intimated to me that big business (LPG carriers) had lobbied hard for non enforcement of that provision due to the high cost of replacing the fleet, but instead of re-licensing or inspection the response was to ignore the task!

He told me then that whenever he saw a large LPG tanker on the road he gave it a wide berth!!!!

So don't hold your breath for some decisive action (unless big business wants it!)
Anyway back to Renault business of a good cars (forget the other froggies!!!)

Ken :dance:
 
Fuego for safety

Monash uni prepared a report on the safety rating of cars that it had crash tested in the mid to late 1990s ;the Fuego was the safest in its category and in the top 5 of all including those fitted with air bags. Even though it was 10 years old at the time!
With a bit of a search the rpt could be found. I suspect that most modern air bagged cars achieve their safety rating mainly due to the bag and if it was inoperative/ removed the occupants would be in a worse situation than those in the pre air bag cars with the designed crumple zones, the Monash uni tests tend to suport this view. :2cents:
I expect that there will be manny shocked owners or buyers of air bagged cars when the RWC is required to aid sale or purchase in Victoria at least or even sooner for the satates with the annual test.
Cheers GavinS (big solid R25 GTX) :renault:
 
GavinS said:
Monash uni prepared a report on the safety rating of cars that it had crash tested in the mid to late 1990s ;the Fuego was the safest in its category and in the top 5 of all including those fitted with air bags. Even though it was 10 years old at the time!
With a bit of a search the rpt could be found. I suspect that most modern air bagged cars achieve their safety rating mainly due to the bag and if it was inoperative/ removed the occupants would be in a worse situation than those in the pre air bag cars with the designed crumple zones, the Monash uni tests tend to suport this view. :2cents:
I expect that there will be manny shocked owners or buyers of air bagged cars when the RWC is required to aid sale or purchase in Victoria at least or even sooner for the satates with the annual test.
Cheers GavinS (big solid R25 GTX) :renault:
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that may be so
but that doesn't count out the fact that cars have these bags fitted as safety equipment the same as seat belts are fitted to cars
also the bags have a limited life and they need to be replaced at designated intervals
 
I wouldn't be to worried about the limited life of the airbag. The US has been putting the larger version in their cars (designed to stop an unbelted person) for many more years than they have been available here. I have heard of them still working after 20+ years. Its probably just a bit more of a 'just in case' type thing. I could be wrong.
Besides I was told that normal seatbelts should be replaced every 8 - 10 years, regardless of wear. How many people have done that?
Airbags don't have to be old to be faulty. I have heard of new commodores blowing theirs for no reason.
 
pugrambo said:
now i think volvo have 15 year bags as well (justin ???)
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Strangely, 1987-1991 models have airbags with a 20 year lifespan. Models after that are on 15 year cycles, and their lifespan may be extended based on testing as the time approaches.

pugrambo said:
where is it going to stop ????
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Unfortunately safety for a lot of people is just about the number of airbags you have in the car. Fortunately Australia is a country with a good level of seatbelt usage.

The new Mégane Sport Hatch achieves a world first by incorporating Renault's latest safety advance, an anti-submarining airbag for the front seats to ensure the same level of safety as in the five-door hatchback.
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I have to doubt the value of some features. The Megane II Sport Hatch has anti submarining airbags. Most quality cars have had anti submarining seats (stop you from sliding underneath your belt off the seat) for many years and in all honesty, I can't recall any discussion over the past decade recommending an improvement in anti submarining technology. I really think the engineering effort and resources could have been put in a more useful place. I'm still trying to work out what makes the 3dr more prone to submarining than the 5dr, I mean are their seats really that different?

This (to me), reeks of one upmanship - I've got more airbags than you, nananananana. I'm not against airbags (far from it), but I really have my reservations about the benefit of anti submarining seat airbags. I guess it's a bit like the auto gearbox wars amongst the Germans, I think you get to a point when you really have to ask whether more gears is of any real benefit.
 
i know of a volvo/pug dealer that has changed bags out on volvos already due to the age thing
you would think that if the early ones have the 20 year bag rule then the owner has been ripped off
especially when you think at the price i was told when i asked about it was $2500/bag
i think we as motorists are going to have to look further into this bag issue as out cars start hitting the time frame that we have been lead to believe so far to change them out
my GTi-6 at this point in time is safe untill 2013
thank you justin
can always count on you to answer a volvo query :D
 
pugrambo said:
i know of a volvo/pug dealer that has changed bags out on volvos already due to the age thing
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You wonder how they test them?

Tech is in the workshop, thinks the bag is dead, so he fiddles with a sensor or something like that, "Oh $*(!", the airbag goes off, turns out it wasn't quite dead :)

Can't do much there can you? It's not like you can press 'undo' or anything like that!
 
R17G said:
I wouldn't be to worried about the limited life of the airbag. The US has been putting the larger version in their cars (designed to stop an unbelted person) for many more years than they have been available here. I have heard of them still working after 20+ years. Its probably just a bit more of a 'just in case' type thing. I could be wrong.
Besides I was told that normal seatbelts should be replaced every 8 - 10 years, regardless of wear. How many people have done that?
Airbags don't have to be old to be faulty. I have heard of new commodores blowing theirs for no reason.
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Sure they may still be OK after 20 years, but would you place a WW2 un-exploded device in the back of your car? These things have to go unstable sometime.

A "normal" old non-tensioning seatbelt is unlikely to be a risk in everyday driving until it breaks during an accident and your head splits like a watermelon on the dash. With an old airbag it would be like driving around with an unstable explosive device in the car, you never know when it will go off. In the case of your "new Commodore" at least you (or associated parties) have a claim against the manufacturer if it explodes for no reason within the use-by date. After that, you are on your own, and a blown out of date airbag is of no use if it obscures your vision while doing the Gorge!
 
It might be worthy of further investigation. How do old airbags die?

Do they go off spontenanously, or do they simply fail in an accident?

One would hope that the trigger mechanism is such that deterioration over time actually neuters the chemicals or somehow "open circuits" the system.

This may explain how the airbag warning light system functions?
 
REN TIN TIN said:
Might look at this instead:

R21 auction
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something is a bit wrong with that ad - either its an '89-91 TXE with a 4 sp auto, or its an '88 TXE with a 3sp auto. Still a good car either way and will no doubt be cheap ;)
 
Simon said:
Sure they may still be OK after 20 years, but would you place a WW2 un-exploded device in the back of your car? These things have to go unstable sometime.

A "normal" old non-tensioning seatbelt is unlikely to be a risk in everyday driving until it breaks during an accident and your head splits like a watermelon on the dash. With an old airbag it would be like driving around with an unstable explosive device in the car, you never know when it will go off. In the case of your "new Commodore" at least you (or associated parties) have a claim against the manufacturer if it explodes for no reason within the use-by date. After that, you are on your own, and a blown out of date airbag is of no use if it obscures your vision while doing the Gorge!
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Ok, Lets agree to disagree. But I was told about the seatbelts by a business that deals in them. If they snap in an accident they are at least as dangerous as an airbag. I get your point about the WWII shell, but its not exactly the same. If given the choice I would rather have an inflated bag of air go off than a fragmentation explosive go off in the car. At least you might survive! :D
Besides can you legally remove the bag? Perhaps replace it with a nice Momo wheel?
Also if you were injured whilst driving, couldn't you claim it on insurance?
Remember people argued against seatbelts, saying it was safer to be thrown out of the car!

p.s. Mine will probably blow now for no reason. Feel free to tell me "I told you so!" :8_ball:
 
I have owned a Fuego for about 4 years, whilst my mum has a Series 1 19 which I drive occasionally.
They are both very sweet cars, but I must say I love my Fuego, it has a bit more oomph that you sometimes require whereas I'm a bit anxious about the 19's power to handle some situations. The 19 is very quiet and handles the road and any bumps very easily. It's not a bad looking car with decent room and a great boot for its size. The power window controls in the centre are a bit of a pain, and only work for the front two windows. Some parts are very expensive eg. several hundred dollars for radiator hoses and temperature controls and it's more difficult to find 2nd hand parts.
Fuegos are nifty, beautiful looking cars and if you can get the right wheels on it will see you motoring around in comfort and style. Boot struggles to fit three golf bags and leg room in the back is miniscule, but I still love it for its chamring foibles.
 
Pug307 said:
...I have to doubt the value of some features. The Megane II Sport Hatch has anti submarining airbags. Most quality cars have had anti submarining seats (stop you from sliding underneath your belt off the seat) for many years and in all honesty, I can't recall any discussion over the past decade recommending an improvement in anti submarining technology. I really think the engineering effort and resources could have been put in a more useful place. I'm still trying to work out what makes the 3dr more prone to submarining than the 5dr, I mean are their seats really that different?
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The seat is different in that it needs to shift forward so people can get in the back. I read that this was the reasoning behind the extra airbags. I don't know enough about crash testing to understand all the ramifications of why it would be neccessary, but I do wonder if it was done to ensure a 5 star rating for both the 5 door and 3 door versions.
 
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