R10 de-rusting & painting?

Gus

Gus

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Hi folks,

I just bought a 68 Renault 10. It has some rust (surprise surprise). So I need to de-rust and touch some of it up.

But how do I get a good paint match? Are there codes for a car this old? I can't take the petrol cap off this one like on my 505. :p

Generally, does anyone have any tips or advice on this process? (or people to talk to in the Canberra region?) Am I wasting my time trying to banish rust from a rusty - but not too rusty - Renault? Will I need to do the whole car or can I just do the rusty areas and be relatively safe? (the paint outside of the rust patches largely seems fine.)

The car is British Racing Green (is this an original colour?)
 
One thing to remember, rust is like an iceburg, you can only see the tip of it, of course we can't see how bad it is but it's best to speak to a restorer and not a panel beater, if the metal has holes in it you need to cut it right back to the good solid metal and start again. The paint is the easy bit, there should be plenty of paint supply companies in Canberra who can mix up paint, I know of heaps down here, they all have paint charts and there is only one dark green for a 68-70 Renault, 404's used the same color so any paint supplier with Renault or Peugeot charts should do.

David.
 
The Colour Shop in the RSL arcade in Queanbeyan will computer match the colour if you take in a sample (eg: remove the engine lid and take it with you). They have a web site which is iether <a href="http://www.colourshop.com.au" target="_blank">www.colourshop.com.au</a> or depending on the spelling of "colour" <a href="http://www.colorshop.com.au" target="_blank">www.colorshop.com.au</a> can't remember. Anyway they are good to deal with.

Good luck. If you need any panels or parts let me know as there is a pile of parts available in the ACT.
 
...gave you a bum steer...the colourshop web site "est foutu".

As far as the rust goes, remember that there isn't a great deal on your 10 that cant be unbolted and replaced with other panels.

Don't forget to check the floor, as this often rusts out because of leaking windscreen seals.
 
The BRG would be an original colour, likely to be Dulux acrylic lacquer Tannen Green Dulux code 566.01179. As for paint matching as suggested take the car to a paint place and see how close they get.

As for rust, where is it and how bad?

8's and 10's are notorious rusters. I'll detail some.

1) Boot floor, the drain blocks, or the paint peels off inside water gets in and rusts the boot floor.

2)The front end of the chassis rails. These are filled with sponge rubber, the sponge shrinks, water gets in. Usually visible adjacent to where the bump stop fits into the chassis rail, but it can be hidden by underseal. Also the chassis rail has two holes on the underside (close to the pedal bracket, water gets in. The caissis rails are thick, but surely in extreme cases they could be weakened.

3)Interior floor rust, through leaking window seals front/rear or a leaking heater matrix or a poorly sealed heater matrix where it bolts to the front bulkhead. Not usually visible, water gets under the rubber mat and starts its insidious work, bingo, no front or rear floors. In serious cases, water leaks into the front pillars and rots the base of the pillar as well as the top of the pillar which is visible from outside the car. The base of pillar rust is caused either from a leaking windscreen or where a replacement front guard hasn't been sealed where it bolts to the front pillar.

4) Sills, rusted from blocked drain holes. The rear part of the sill is also plugged with sponge foam. Water can get in thruough poorly sealed body seams and rusts the underside of the sill. Look underneath the car between the chassis rail and sill. Be careful about bent sills near the jacking point, it could either be caused by an incorrectly located jack (the owner not compensating for the action of the swing axles and the car falling off the jack as it is raised) or it could be rust but it should be obvious.

5) Panel between the engine cover and rear window, press and listen for crunchy noises indicating rust. Usually the rust is covered by the rear window seal. Poor body seam sealing causes water to get into the box section, it also rots out the "boxes" at either side of the rear window (visible from inside the engine compartment and under the rear guards). Subsequent leaks also rot out the base of the C pillar. Also check all around the door openings for rust from top to bottom.

6) Rust between the body reinforcing and inner rear wing above the rear crossmember. Where the crossmember bolts to the chassis rail, there is a reinforcing plate spot welded to the rear inner wing, rust can form between the plate and inner wing due to poor sealing.

7) Tops of wings, mud packs in rotting out the thin panels. Doors also rust from top (below the window scraper), to bottom (blocked drain holes).

Phew, after that little rave let's get to the point. As long as the rust isn't too bad, hopefully just surface rust it can be fixed. If you are handy with a Mig, you could even do it yourself. When the job is finished just coat the box sections and repaired areas with fishoil or equivalent rust preventer.

Beware that eliminating rust can be expensive, especially if you don't DIY. In this early stage it may be worth looking around for a more rust free example to do up and keep the present car for spares.

I have heard that Ken Horsfall of the ROCC of Canberra has a good car that "only needs a bit of work" so that may be worth a look at this point.

Also if you need windscreen seals I've heard that Caravelle Imports in Melbourne has Renault pieces d'origine (genuine bits) new (not perished old stock) available.

Hope this helps!

Simon

Gus:
Hi folks,

I just bought a 68 Renault 10. It has some rust (surprise surprise). So I need to de-rust and touch some of it up.

But how do I get a good paint match? Are there codes for a car this old? I can't take the petrol cap off this one like on my 505. :p

Generally, does anyone have any tips or advice on this process? (or people to talk to in the Canberra region?) Am I wasting my time trying to banish rust from a rusty - but not too rusty - Renault? Will I need to do the whole car or can I just do the rusty areas and be relatively safe? (the paint outside of the rust patches largely seems fine.)

The car is British Racing Green (is this an original colour?)
Click to expand...
 
Alright, the rust report:

- Body has many places showing primer. One or two have some surface rust where there formerly was primer. Surface rust will be sanded off and re-primed, then all primer will be sprayed with regular spray paint as a precautionary measure (car no longer gets to live in a garage. If I decide to do it up, I'll get it a respray but until then I'm working to a budget.)

- Roof has the nastiest patches on the exterior. One drainage channel is all primer, the other is light rust. There are two large strips with no paint on top.

- Bonnet is stone chipped (quite severely... hail?) and most of these chips are most rust than primer. A new bonnet may be in order.

- Two patches, both on front wing panels, look more severe. It's possible I'll want to replace both panels.

- Back edge of driver's side mudguard (on the inside, behind the wheel) has a rust patch at the bottom.

- Front floor pan has widespread rust as does front section of boot. Are the rubber plugs in the middle of these panels for drainage? From under the car, it doesn't look like any of the rust on these panels has spread through apart from at the drain holes punched in the floor pan. I will know for sure when I pull out the wire brush this weekend...

- Haven't had a good look at rear floor pan yet. Will pull out seats on weekend. Are the floor pans at all removable in the R10?

- Back end of the car remains partially unexplored (I haven't jacked it up yet to get underneath.) I get crunchy noises when I push next to where the fuel filler pipe disappears into the "firewall" (Simon, is this where you meant?)

- Some exposed primer in the engine bay. Will fish-oil for good measure.

- Doors appear good.

... all in all, this is roughly what I'd assume a 1968 R10 would be like in terms of rust. Do people agree?
 
Gus:

- Front floor pan has widespread rust as does front section of boot. Are the rubber plugs in the middle of these panels for drainage? From under the car, it doesn't look like any of the rust on these panels has spread through apart from at the drain holes punched in the floor pan. I will know for sure when I pull out the wire brush this weekend...

- Haven't had a good look at rear floor pan yet. Will pull out seats on weekend. Are the floor pans at all removable in the R10?

- Back end of the car remains partially unexplored (I haven't jacked it up yet to get underneath.) I get crunchy noises when I push next to where the fuel filler pipe disappears into the "firewall" (Simon, is this where you meant?)

... all in all, this is roughly what I'd assume a 1968 R10 would be like in terms of rust. Do people agree?
Click to expand...
Sounds like a typical dark colour 10 to me, most of the paint just boiled off the primer. If rubbing down to the original primer, use an etch primer before coating with plain primer.

The rubber plugs in the boot floor are for drainage. The top of the plenum chamber drain usually rots out filling the boot with water then the boot floor rots out.

The rear floor pan usually rots under the bitumen sheet that is placed there, usually the front floor also has a bitumen sheet that also holds water.....

The floor pan is spot welded in place to the chassis rails and cross members. New ones have to be welded in.

So are the crunchy noises in the vertical wall (body colour) that turns into the panel (black painted) between the engine and fuel tank? That is the rear bulkhead between the car and engine. Usually the panel above the filler neck (that fills the space between the rear window and engine cover) rusts out.
 
Gus,

For when you've removed the heavy stuff, I recommend a rust converter called Exit Rust (or Fertan, very similar stuff) which is a tannin based converter. I've also had it confirmed by a panel beater I know, that this stuff is good. Follow the instructions and it converts light rust to a black powdery oxide, which you then brush off lightly and paint over as normal. Good gear. It offers no protection, though.

For protection I highly recommend K&H Anti Rust Protectant, which is a great product that comes out thin and penetrating where you can inject it into crevices from the spray tin (it seeks out cracks) then turns waxy like the fish oil stuff, but no smell. You can whack a few coats on if you want. As used by OEM's here.

Stuey
 
The battle against the rust continues...

I've done 80% of the boot so far. This had some of the thickest rust (the other nasty stuff is in the floor pans.)

I scratched it back to pitted silver metal (with some black in the pits) with drill-mounted wire brushes. Next, the guy at the hardware store recommended I use something called "Hammerite" which is an anti-rust enamel paint, to be used without primer. They claim you can paint it directly onto the rust (I haven't!)

Anyhow, I'm going to use that in the boot and floor pans, as these are areas where colour and appearance are much less important than merely stopping the rust from coming back.

Thanks for the tip about "Exit Rust"... I have an Exit Rust etch primer, but I couldn't find the converter you spoke of (the Exit Rest deruster I found turned the rust into a "paintable surface", but then specified exactly what you could and couldn't do to that surface. :confused: ). Not to worry, the wire brushes did a pretty good job of scratching it all off.

Oops... time for the second coat of Hammerite. :)

PS The bad newS? I got under the car properly today... the rear passenger side floor pan is rusted through :(. Looks like it will probably need welding.
 
Gus,
I just picked one up a couple of days ago. Generally in good shape.
However, one rusty spot has caught me out. Just near the boot, toward the windscreen there are a couple of triangular corner pieces. These were pretty badly rusted inside.
Any problems with that spot for you?
 
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