From wrc.com... (http://www.wrc.com/News.aspx?PO_ID=5254&flash=False&lang=en_GB)
A very sad day for WRC and all us French WRC fans.
A very sad day for WRC and all us French WRC fans.
PSA to end WRC involvement from end 2005!!
- Thread starter gti138
- Start date
Well one positive - Mitsubishi should finally be able to win a rally in the crap new Evo WRC
I think that WRC supremo David Richards (& Subaru team owner) will be quite pleased.
I think that WRC supremo David Richards (& Subaru team owner) will be quite pleased.
Ford have commited to WRC, so they're hanging around. As are: Mitsu, Subaru and Skoda. But it is a bit rough for them to pull out, I must say.
They wanted to prove they could do it .... and they have (with unlimited money it seems). Guess they'll just move on to kick someone else's arse now ?gti138 said:
- XTC -
OMG, thats terrible. Im really upset about that, this is really surprising, espicially given the success of PSA in the WRC.
Makes you wonder though about the finacial position of PSA if they need to be pulling out of such competions, both peugeot & citroen are now well recognised in the wider community as being 'great' rally cars, this then equates in to more cars being sold for PSA. PSA would be well aware of this & wouldnt have made such a big decision if there wasnt a 'strong' reason to do so.
If anyone was going to pull out i thought it would have been ford.
I think the biggest loser out of this though will be citroen, given there success with the xsara & the prospect of entering the WRC with the c4 (i think). Citroens profile has grown with WRC, peugeot will always have a higher level of recognition, but citroen got that added boost by competing in the wrc, id hate to think what could happen to them in Australia for example with little or no international motorsport competition.
As for f1, i hope they dont compete, i'd rather see pug rally cars than pug f1 cars. I'd rather see peugeot or citroen having a strong presense in rally as oppose to a mediocre f1 team, we all know how hard it is to get to the top in f1. Peugeot have tried f1 too many times without success, why try again & fail miserable. Anyone remeber the happy times when peugeot provided engines for Mc Laren in the mid 90's.....What a joke
Plus wouldnt it cost PSA more to compete in f1?
Anyway im really upset about this,
Makes you wonder though about the finacial position of PSA if they need to be pulling out of such competions, both peugeot & citroen are now well recognised in the wider community as being 'great' rally cars, this then equates in to more cars being sold for PSA. PSA would be well aware of this & wouldnt have made such a big decision if there wasnt a 'strong' reason to do so.
If anyone was going to pull out i thought it would have been ford.
I think the biggest loser out of this though will be citroen, given there success with the xsara & the prospect of entering the WRC with the c4 (i think). Citroens profile has grown with WRC, peugeot will always have a higher level of recognition, but citroen got that added boost by competing in the wrc, id hate to think what could happen to them in Australia for example with little or no international motorsport competition.
As for f1, i hope they dont compete, i'd rather see pug rally cars than pug f1 cars. I'd rather see peugeot or citroen having a strong presense in rally as oppose to a mediocre f1 team, we all know how hard it is to get to the top in f1. Peugeot have tried f1 too many times without success, why try again & fail miserable. Anyone remeber the happy times when peugeot provided engines for Mc Laren in the mid 90's.....What a joke
Plus wouldnt it cost PSA more to compete in f1?
Anyway im really upset about this,
Yeah I thought it'd cost more to compete in f1 if they do decide to do customer engines as some of you guys suggested?
Are the PSA groups sales doing that bad? They should at least keep one of the marques in rallyugplak: seeing that they have done so well recently
Are the PSA groups sales doing that bad? They should at least keep one of the marques in rally
ugplak: seeing that they have done so well recently 
this is a seriousely stupid move, yes PSA have proven they can kick anyone's ass in WRC. I think other people have stated it perfectly in saying that peugeot and citroen will loose recognition if they wihdraw from WRC.
i also agree that peugeot have tried and failed in F1 to many times latelly, did the Mclaren even get off the start in 1 race ?, the deal with Jordan was a little better, i beleive they won a race or two, then Peugeot Prost... lets not even talk about that i think they won one race by fluke. it's been way to long since peugeot have been able to do anything good in F1
i also agree that peugeot have tried and failed in F1 to many times latelly, did the Mclaren even get off the start in 1 race ?, the deal with Jordan was a little better, i beleive they won a race or two, then Peugeot Prost... lets not even talk about that i think they won one race by fluke. it's been way to long since peugeot have been able to do anything good in F1
orestes said:
No it makes marketing sense, F1 has a following all over the world, WRC has a big following in Europe and enthusiastic following in the rest of the world. Don't get me wrong I'm a huge WRC fan, but this is commercial reality. The biggest driver for all of this will be China, all manufacturers are clambering for market share in China, PSA are no different.
Your second paragraph is justification as to why they have to do it, to prove a point whilst gaining valuable marketing points in emerging markets.
matt205 said:
they'll make a point, they'll make a point that there asses and they shouldn't be in F1. I don't think Peugeot can ever hope to match Mercedes or Ferarari, let alone match it with BMW or Renault. They don't have the expertise, nor have they been able to make an engine with enough power or reliability. Lets look into that and, look at the reliability of the engine in the Mclaren, that i don't beleive started a race, they basically sat in there grid position and that was it and then the Prost which was almost as bad the only half decent engine they supplied was to jordan and that was still under powerd. Peugeot had its glory days in F1, and they've been out of the sport to long to catch up.
don't get me wrong i'd love to see a strong peugeot factory F1 team, but i don't think peugeot are capable of making a car that is a reliable and b with a motor with enough power
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I think everyone is "assuming" they are going into F1............why?
Has anyone said that? It could be entirely different, after all, Loeb got his experience & reputation in European Rallying as did Phillipe Bugalski who is still competing in Europe as part of the Citroen team.
What's to say they won't simply contest rallies on various continents as Toyota are doing here with Bates & Evans.
There are moves abroad to revive a touring car series in Europe & the UK and given Loeb's prowess on bitumen, what's to say it's not the long term plan to get involved in that. (Wouldn't that be something to see?)
Ford were ready to pull the plug this year also, but it could also be that the manufacturers overall are more au fait with the world economy and talk of a 20% reduction in new car sales tells me that there are expectations of a tightening of fiscal policies by some of the major economies. I think there's too much speculation & not enough facts to get too carried away.
Alan S
Has anyone said that? It could be entirely different, after all, Loeb got his experience & reputation in European Rallying as did Phillipe Bugalski who is still competing in Europe as part of the Citroen team.
What's to say they won't simply contest rallies on various continents as Toyota are doing here with Bates & Evans.
There are moves abroad to revive a touring car series in Europe & the UK and given Loeb's prowess on bitumen, what's to say it's not the long term plan to get involved in that. (Wouldn't that be something to see?)
Ford were ready to pull the plug this year also, but it could also be that the manufacturers overall are more au fait with the world economy and talk of a 20% reduction in new car sales tells me that there are expectations of a tightening of fiscal policies by some of the major economies. I think there's too much speculation & not enough facts to get too carried away.
Alan S
Well PSA must have more dollars than sense to be wanting to compete in f1. Your china theory may be right, but im sure the WRC will venture into china sometime soon, everything else is. Plus WRC's popularity is growing & growing.
I think PSA should stick to their guns & compete in WRC, they aren't made for f1 & they are kidding themselves if they think they are, for godsake they couldnt fix the clutch on the 307 all year, god help them come up with an f1 car.
I havent got stats to prove this but i reckon that a top performing WRC team gets more 'positive' marketing than that of a middle of the table f1 team which struggles to finish races ala Jaguar. Plus if a consumer is dumb enough to give into the marketing tool which is motorsport, wouldnt they rather see their particular model compete (rally car) instead of some multi-million dollar race car (f1 car)??
Renualt have been busting their balls for ages now trying to get their works team at a high level & only now they can say that they have come close but still very far to go. Renaults experience in f1 engine manufacturing year in year out is also something PSA will struggle to come to grips with. Has Renault's f1 involvment and relatively decent success resulted in a significant increase in sales?? I dont know but im geussing the impact would be nothing significant.
The more i think about it the more confusing this decision seems. The classic sayings 'if it aint broke don't fix it' & 'dont bite of more than you can chew' come to mind.
Either way if PSA go into f1 there stuffed cause they'll be putting more money into that than what they will get out of it or if they dont compete at in international motorsport will lose sales.
Its a lose-lose situation for PSA.
What ya reckon?
I think PSA should stick to their guns & compete in WRC, they aren't made for f1 & they are kidding themselves if they think they are, for godsake they couldnt fix the clutch on the 307 all year, god help them come up with an f1 car.
I havent got stats to prove this but i reckon that a top performing WRC team gets more 'positive' marketing than that of a middle of the table f1 team which struggles to finish races ala Jaguar. Plus if a consumer is dumb enough to give into the marketing tool which is motorsport, wouldnt they rather see their particular model compete (rally car) instead of some multi-million dollar race car (f1 car)??
Renualt have been busting their balls for ages now trying to get their works team at a high level & only now they can say that they have come close but still very far to go. Renaults experience in f1 engine manufacturing year in year out is also something PSA will struggle to come to grips with. Has Renault's f1 involvment and relatively decent success resulted in a significant increase in sales?? I dont know but im geussing the impact would be nothing significant.
The more i think about it the more confusing this decision seems. The classic sayings 'if it aint broke don't fix it' & 'dont bite of more than you can chew' come to mind.
Either way if PSA go into f1 there stuffed cause they'll be putting more money into that than what they will get out of it or if they dont compete at in international motorsport will lose sales.
Its a lose-lose situation for PSA.
What ya reckon?
actually after reading alan's post, why are we assuming they will get into f1?
O yeah did you hear Peugeot have decided to compete in the 2006 world moped challenge,
O yeah did you hear Peugeot have decided to compete in the 2006 world moped challenge,
purrr-geot said:Well PSA must have more dollars than sense to be wanting to compete in f1. Your china theory may be right, but im sure the WRC will venture into china sometime soon, everything else is. Plus WRC's popularity is growing & growing.
I think PSA should stick to their guns & compete in WRC, they aren't made for f1 & they are kidding themselves if they think they are, for godsake they couldnt fix the clutch on the 307 all year, god help them come up with an f1 car.
I havent got stats to prove this but i reckon that a top performing WRC team gets more 'positive' marketing than that of a middle of the table f1 team which struggles to finish races ala Jaguar. Plus if a consumer is dumb enough to give into the marketing tool which is motorsport, wouldnt they rather see their particular model compete (rally car) instead of some multi-million dollar race car (f1 car)??
Renualt have been busting their balls for ages now trying to get their works team at a high level & only now they can say that they have come close but still very far to go. Renaults experience in f1 engine manufacturing year in year out is also something PSA will struggle to come to grips with. Has Renault's f1 involvment and relatively decent success resulted in a significant increase in sales?? I dont know but im geussing the impact would be nothing significant.
The more i think about it the more confusing this decision seems. The classic sayings 'if it aint broke don't fix it' & 'dont bite of more than you can chew' come to mind.
Either way if PSA go into f1 there stuffed cause they'll be putting more money into that than what they will get out of it or if they dont compete at in international motorsport will lose sales.
Its a lose-lose situation for PSA.
What ya reckon?
i couldn't agree more, peugeot and its half baked forays into F1, during the early to late 90's did nothing for them. Actually i'll change that into say it did do something and that is that it proved they can't compete in modern F1. why they would go back after 3 disasters in F1 is beyond me
orestes said:
Sorry mate but you need to read up on your F1 history, 94 was Peugeot's first foray into modern F1 with McLaren, there was no way that the first year was going to be hugely successful, but to say they never got of the line is stretching the truth wildely. Towards the end and 96 and 97 in particular the Peugeot motor was generally regarded as being right up there in terms of power AND reliabilty, they were always let down by poor chassis and aero.
Why can't PSA compete with the likes of BMW, Mercedes and even Ferrari? Were not comparing road cars here. Peugeots huge success in endurance Sportscar racing proves they can build a strong reliable car and engine. Renault have always been at the top of the game when it comes to engine development and they have no more resources than Peugeot.
Peugeot has a history of dominating every form of motorsport at one time or another, except for F1, I reckon it's a point of pride for them.
I have my doubts that they'll be getting into formula one, though I would love, love, love to see it, a uniting of the 2 motoring things that turn me into a total fanboy .
I also agree that in marketing value, a top rally team craps all over a middle (and maybe even top) F1 team. There's a reason every second idiot drives a WRX, In fact, being a middle ranked F1 team these days may be considered a bit of a liabilty. These guys aren't paying the enormous sums of money they do to have cars come in as also-rans. It made sense for Jag to pull out.
I also agree that in marketing value, a top rally team craps all over a middle (and maybe even top) F1 team. There's a reason every second idiot drives a WRX, In fact, being a middle ranked F1 team these days may be considered a bit of a liabilty. These guys aren't paying the enormous sums of money they do to have cars come in as also-rans. It made sense for Jag to pull out.
GT Racing. Whether it be prototype or modified production thats up to them. We need to see some fast cars that resemble their production cars even more closely than WRC.
I was actually hoping to see Citroen pull out of A8 WRC racing and head toward the S2000 racing. And again we'd see a Front wheel drive 2 litre N/A whoop the pants off the AWD Turbo boys on the bitumen stages.
I was actually hoping to see Citroen pull out of A8 WRC racing and head toward the S2000 racing. And again we'd see a Front wheel drive 2 litre N/A whoop the pants off the AWD Turbo boys on the bitumen stages.