I think I may do that. my ring compressor has a slightly too coarse ratchet to get tight enough but we'll give it a go. Renault definitely recommends in their factory manual to insert pistons from below on the 1647, 1565 and 1472 cc engines...FWIW
My 404C resto begins!
- Thread starter Mike Tippett
- Start date
Mike,
Please invest in a taper type ring compressor for the size piston you have. It is essentially a block of aluminum or steel that has a gradual taper inside it to compress the rings over a couple of inches.
We machine them out of thick walled water pipe but they are available already made.
email me your email address and i can send you a photo adrian.wuillemin46@gmail.com
Please invest in a taper type ring compressor for the size piston you have. It is essentially a block of aluminum or steel that has a gradual taper inside it to compress the rings over a couple of inches.
We machine them out of thick walled water pipe but they are available already made.
email me your email address and i can send you a photo adrian.wuillemin46@gmail.com
I never did get the image of the taper type ring compressor....
Anyway after a bit of a layoff due to being busy cycling and then about 4 weeks ago, a knee injury, I had a go at making some more brake lines to see if I could get the new ones to seal.
To recapitulate, I bought some 10 mm unions out of Der Franzose, thinking that they'd be better than the ones I bought locally (which were non-metric on the wrench site, threading is the same). Noticed on a couple of practise flares that the shape of the union at the contact point is very different: the dirty union is a factory original; the longer union is the locally sourced one; and the short shiny one is the Franzose union.
The original and the local one have a very different taper where the flare is pinched against the cylinder - definitely incorrect!
Does anyone know where to get properly tapered 10 mm short unions?
Thanks
Anyway after a bit of a layoff due to being busy cycling and then about 4 weeks ago, a knee injury, I had a go at making some more brake lines to see if I could get the new ones to seal.
To recapitulate, I bought some 10 mm unions out of Der Franzose, thinking that they'd be better than the ones I bought locally (which were non-metric on the wrench site, threading is the same). Noticed on a couple of practise flares that the shape of the union at the contact point is very different: the dirty union is a factory original; the longer union is the locally sourced one; and the short shiny one is the Franzose union.
The original and the local one have a very different taper where the flare is pinched against the cylinder - definitely incorrect!
Does anyone know where to get properly tapered 10 mm short unions?
Thanks
Mike, i never received an email from you. Happy to share the details.
It is like this
Regards
Adrian
It is like this
Regards
Adrian
Must have been caught in a spam filter! Thanks
Just ordered one of those compressors, thanks again
Not sure if I'm trying to tell you how to suck eggs - but here goes. My experience of Peugeot brakes, limited to 203, is that being Lockheed they follow imperial dimensions - lines cylinders et al. However, unions are metric. Accordingly I was able to use an imperial double flare kit to make up the lines with 1/4" pipe. I'm not sure if the same applies to the 404. There is a metric standard flare kit available. It may have a different angle on the flaring tool. Which one are you using? Are the 404 lines 1/4" or 6mm?
The line is 4.75 mm, using a metric flare kit.
My main question right now is the unions....there is less than half the conical taper in the new 10 mm UNF Imperial threading unions than there is in the originals. I should imagine this is bad.
My main question right now is the unions....there is less than half the conical taper in the new 10 mm UNF Imperial threading unions than there is in the originals. I should imagine this is bad.
...and it turns out that the unions likely were the problem with my new brake lines.
The reason is that the Hydrovac 404s have short external brake lines connecting the two cylinders - these have bubble flares, which I dutifully made, but the fittings that I used the first time were the same over all lines, which in hindsight is not correct, because the bubble flares use about 1/3 the conical taper of the regular flares. So those lines would have been where the air was being sucked in.
My friend Tim Bowles in Victoria gave me a set of used fittings and this is when I finally clued into the problem. So I've removed and cleaned up 4 originals and will make sure to use them on the new lines I make up. Feeling optimistic about this now...
Bubble flare fitting on left and regular flare fitting on the right.
The reason is that the Hydrovac 404s have short external brake lines connecting the two cylinders - these have bubble flares, which I dutifully made, but the fittings that I used the first time were the same over all lines, which in hindsight is not correct, because the bubble flares use about 1/3 the conical taper of the regular flares. So those lines would have been where the air was being sucked in.
My friend Tim Bowles in Victoria gave me a set of used fittings and this is when I finally clued into the problem. So I've removed and cleaned up 4 originals and will make sure to use them on the new lines I make up. Feeling optimistic about this now...
Bubble flare fitting on left and regular flare fitting on the right.
So I have ordered a bunch of stuff including the exact fittings that are identical to the originals from Der Franzose, rather than re-using the old painted ones in the above photo.
Well, it took seven and a half weeks to get the shipment from Der Franzose/CiPeRe....
Comparing the new fittings with extended noses I got for the front brake crossover lines with the short ones on the first set I made:
Today I made up another set of the crossover lines with the new fittings. Note the bubble flares.
Then installed them...
I still will remake some other lines too as I damaged a lot of the fitting heads overtightening them with the incorrect metric tool back in 2019!
On a related note, a search on "Luce Targa Carello" gave me a hit for this on eBay in Italy:
It's a 404C license plate light, NOS, but was listed as being for a Fiat 238 van (which may well be). Anyway for 70 EUR plus 25 for postage to Canada, it's soon to be my spare. Sadly, the seller has no more. But the Fiat 238 tip could be useful.
Comparing the new fittings with extended noses I got for the front brake crossover lines with the short ones on the first set I made:
Today I made up another set of the crossover lines with the new fittings. Note the bubble flares.
Then installed them...
I still will remake some other lines too as I damaged a lot of the fitting heads overtightening them with the incorrect metric tool back in 2019!
On a related note, a search on "Luce Targa Carello" gave me a hit for this on eBay in Italy:
It's a 404C license plate light, NOS, but was listed as being for a Fiat 238 van (which may well be). Anyway for 70 EUR plus 25 for postage to Canada, it's soon to be my spare. Sadly, the seller has no more. But the Fiat 238 tip could be useful.
It's the seller in Italy! I haven't got the light unit yet.....
Sunday I made up and installed the following brake lines with metric-nutted fittings (11 mm):
- firewall to front splitter
- front splitter to LF wheel
- front splitter to RF wheel
- rubber hose on torque tube to rear proportioning valve
- rear proportioning valve to LR wheel
- rear proportioning valve to RR wheel
The Carello 404 Coupé license plate light arrived today. Minty new. It cost me 95 Euros including postage to Canada from Italy. Actually the seller paid 26.90 EUR for the postage! There was something rattling around inside the package, which was inside the light - see the second photo and guess what it is!
Yes and a friend in the Netherlands told me it's from a Peugeot J7! It's a nice piece.
I did get a tapered ring compressor a while back, by the way.
Too cold in the garage to do work right now. But I did get this oil pressure sending unit for the Jaeger sports instrument panel that I'll eventually install. Made in Barcelona!
