Matra Simca Bagheera U8

Frans

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Quite an interesting story that amplifies the French and their "own idea and bugger the rest" attitude. This is a shortened version of an article I found that interested me in the developments with completely different mindsets.

They took 2 x 1300 Simca engines and combined them next to one another and this layout did not create a V8, but a U8 - the two fours were still separate engines. The motors turn opposite ways and are linked by chain. But just as amazing were the very small changes needed to take the Bagheera from an 84 hp car to a 268 bhp (net) tourer.

Widening the car was not necessary because the U8 was mounted transversely. However, because of the extra "length" of the U8, the wheelbase was lengthened 14 cm (5.5 inches) to accommodate the mid-mounted engine. Wheel sizes and shock absorbers were uprated, also, to take the extra power of the U8. Matra made the engines contra-rotating to get around vibration problems as the engines spin faster but fitted a big flywheel to only one of the two banks. The mated engines were held in position by a reinforced alloy casing which also housed the timing chain gear for one bank of the twin fours and the special connecting chain between the two engines.

The rear suspension of the U8 Bagheera was the same as the one used on the Matra Formula One car - twin wishbones, trailing links, coil springs, enclosing shock absorbers.

Unfortunately this Matra came out at the same time as the fuel crisis that hit us and with 100 km/h in Europe the production was stopped after only 3 units were built. The 210km/h cars were not needed in times like this.
 
so, do any survive?
Apparently only one and that is in the Matra museum.

Interesting piece of work.

1200px-Bagheera_U8_engine.jpg
 
interestingly two 84hp engines joined to produce 268hp ,seems there was a bit more than a few small changes ,would be required to produce that extra power ,!
 
That output figure could possibly have come from www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/car_info_matra_bagheera_u8.
It is possible that they just doubled the 1300 output of 84bhp but made a typo with the 2 instead of a 1.

The 100+bhp/L figure is unlikely for a road going engine of that era. The Lotus Ford "big valve" at 126bhp was only about 78bhp/L and they were a high performance twin-cam engine of the same general time.

Wikipedia has a more likely figure for the U8.
The two 1300cc engines were modified for a higher output and according to Wiki "The resulting 2,588 cc (157.9 cu in) 8-cylinder assembly was fitted with four Weber 36 DCNF carburetors and, with a 9.8:1 compression ratio, produced 126 kW (169.0 hp) at 6200 rpm and 216 N·m (159.3 lb·ft) at 4000 rpm."
 
U8 made 65bhp/L which was a fairly good output for a pushrod carb engine in touring tune.
 
wicki quotes, the 1135 1300 Gordini engine at 99HP ,pushrod carb engine ,out of the factory ,that really quite something by comparison !
 
It puts the 1275 Cooper S to shame with 78bhp total (60bhp/L).
That Gordini bhp/L rate is 76, up there challenging the Lotus Ford at 78
Gordini, Abarth, Costin, Duckworth, Irving, all had a way of finding that extra little bit of power.
The OP, also has been able to find 100+bhp/L from a 1.8 carb engine Frenchie that by all accounts is quite usable on the road.
Congratulations for that achievement, Frans.
 
Hi,

I found another article that mentioned 168 hp. So that must be a typo from the other article. It is still okay but I'm less impressed now ;)

309B6D .........Funny, I have used the Gordini/Lotus Cortina comparison many times as well. Even with on-road performance the G keeps the Lotus honest.

Regards, Frans.
 
Porsche 356 carrera is quoted 115-135 for a quad cam 1.6, of similar vintage ,that's 71 and 84 bhp/l respective, i suppose they hade to gain something for added complexity ,
 
It puts the 1275 Cooper S to shame with 78bhp total (60bhp/L).
That Gordini bhp/L rate is 76, up there challenging the Lotus Ford at 78
Gordini, Abarth, Costin, Duckworth, Irving, all had a way of finding that extra little bit of power.
The OP, also has been able to find 100+bhp/L from a 1.8 carb engine Frenchie that by all accounts is quite usable on the road.
Congratulations for that achievement, Frans.
The 970cc and 1071cc Coopers had better specific output ratings than the 1275cc at 67bhp/L and 65bhp/L respectively.
Still not cutting edge I know, but not quite so embarrassing for Mother England.😉
 
Porsche 356 carrera is quoted 115-135 for a quad cam 1.6, of similar vintage ,that's 71 and 84 bhp/l respective, i suppose they hade to gain something for added complexity ,
The 1970 SOHC 354cc 2 cylinder Honda Z in TS/GS tune had 36bhp, or 101.7 bhp/l.

The Daihatsu Fellowmax SS from the same era made over 110bhp/l but it's a 2 stroke so it's cheating.😉
 
Greenpeace, gearing, torque, and light weight helped the Cooper S.
The smaller Coopers topped out at about 90mph. I assume that they were geared to pull to redline in top gear. Most sporting variants of vehicles are not geared for a lazy top gear cruise. (My 309 SRi has a quoted top speed of 115mph which is about the 6200rpm redline).

I had a Simca 1000 (944cc bored to 988cc) that ran two flying quarter mile times at just a whisker under 95mph ( 94.56 and 94.65mph). Speed was still creeping up at the finish line (6200rpm). Standing quarter mile was timed, then a run up until one mile completed, then timed for the flying quarter.
I have often wondered what power increase I had made over the standard 45bhp (82mph top speed).
The 5 bearing crank let it rev to crazy levels for its day. On a long downhill grade I ran it up to 7200rpm which calculated to 108mph.
When I backed off the speedo needle took so long to reappear from off the scale that I thought it had jammed up there.

That little Poissy engine was a beauty. It eventually had variants from 777cc to 1592cc so it was super strong in its smaller capacities.

Pugwash, the 356 B Carrera GTL was designed by Carlo Abarth and Franco Scaglione. The Porsche 356 B Carrera GTL Abarth was the 135bhp model that you mention. It came at quite a premium price compared with the regular 356 A and 356 B.
The 356 C was the peak of Porsche pushrod engines at 95bhp.

Regards,
Bryan
 
Greenpeace, gearing, torque, and light weight helped the Cooper S.
The smaller Coopers topped out at about 90mph. I assume that they were geared to pull to redline in top gear. Most sporting variants of vehicles are not geared for a lazy top gear cruise. (My 309 SRi has a quoted top speed of 115mph which is about the 6200rpm redline).

I had a Simca 1000 (944cc bored to 988cc) that ran two flying quarter mile times at just a whisker under 95mph ( 94.56 and 94.65mph). Speed was still creeping up at the finish line (6200rpm). Standing quarter mile was timed, then a run up until one mile completed, then timed for the flying quarter.
I have often wondered what power increase I had made over the standard 45bhp (82mph top speed).
The 5 bearing crank let it rev to crazy levels for its day. On a long downhill grade I ran it up to 7200rpm which calculated to 108mph.
When I backed off the speedo needle took so long to reappear from off the scale that I thought it had jammed up there.

That little Poissy engine was a beauty. It eventually had variants from 777cc to 1592cc so it was super strong in its smaller capacities.

Pugwash, the 356 B Carrera GTL was designed by Carlo Abarth and Franco Scaglione. The Porsche 356 B Carrera GTL Abarth was the 135bhp model that you mention. It came at quite a premium price compared with the regular 356 A and 356 B.
The 356 C was the peak of Porsche pushrod engines at 95bhp.

Regards,
Bryan
The all alloy Reliant 4 cylinders made from 1962 are worth a Google if your not familiar with them, they came in 600, 700, 750 and 850ccs.
The 750cc version was the mainstay of the Formula 750 racing in the UK until donors fizzled out. The top guys were getting 100bhp (133bhp/l) at 10,000rpm with push rods and a 3 bearing crank.
The 850cc ones are used in the Rebel Racing series (similar to our Dwarf cars) however these are dynoed and sealed at 63bhp for reliability and close racing.
Liege also used Reliant engines in their fairly successful trials cars.
 
If we are not talking about touring/daily driving lets mention the MV Augusta 500 triple from 1973-76 at 78bhp 156bhp/L. at a mere 12,000rpm.
The 1975 4cyl 500 put out 102bhp at 14,000rpm. Not bad for an air cooled carb engine. 204bhp/L.

The U8 producing 168bhp would have been a very drivable car.
All the high output racing engines mentioned are very impressive but they would likely be spitting and spluttering below 3000rpm - not ideal for road use perhaps.
Longevity could be questioned as well.

I drove an Imp a lot when they first came out.
I could whip my girlfriends mother's new Imp into a left side road at 30mph. It would lift the inside front wheel but remained very stable.
The 875 engine would push it to over 90mph on the speedo.
A great little car - except for the pneumatic throttle which could fail at any time.

A recent search for Lotus Ford output gave 126bhp.
Since they were released I have always thought the big valve engine was 115bhp. It has been a benchmark for me for decades.
It was disappointing to have to adjust this because I have long thought how wonderful my XU5JA (B6D) is by making only 2bhp less from its SOHC 1.6 while retaining outstanding torque and a broad spread of power.
I now know that the big valve was 126bhp. It was the previous SE that had 115bhp.
The Lotus Elan SE had the 115 and the Elan Sprint class racer had the 126. Earlier Elans had a 105bhp.
 
Sticking with aircooled, carby, NA engines.
1966 RC116 50cc Honda twin cylinder GP bike.
DOHC, 4 valves per cylinder, 16bhp @ 21,500 rpm with a 22,500 rpm redline, 9 speed gearbox, clocked at 118 mph. 320bhp/l, the tacho started at 5000rpm so it probably wouldn't have been too tractable as a road going machine.😉

The last of the NA 2 stroke 50cc GP bike's were making around.400bhp/l.
 
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