Meant to add -- I'll most likely go with whatever drive shafts match the brake donor vehicle and then get VW joints on the other end....
Gearbox swap in an 11BL
- Thread starter KiwiPete
- Start date
Do make sure that whatever joint you have at the transmission end is at the center of rotation of the suspension. Otherwise, I believe the up and down movement of the suspension will put up/down loads on the transmission output shafts. I think the TAV front suspension is equal length arms so that just means the joint has to be in the same plane as the upper and lower bushings. Others here may have more insight in that regard.
Sorry I have not been following for a while & some of this may help:
That movement is established @ the transmission end with a sliding [tripod] type CV joint or similar.
Any front wheel drive 1/2 shaft will have this or similar setup.
The main thing in setting up a fabricated 1/2 shaft [& it's not that hard to do] is the tripod is centred in it's slide when the outer end CV & axle drive is fully home against the outer axle hub face. i.e where the oil seal runs that meets with the inner bearing or hub face.
Again the inner balls should be central in the slide @ that critical distance. See below~
This setting up/measuring must all be done when the wheels are on the ground & the vehicle loaded!
Also CRITICAL with the light 15, 11BL is that the frame has a hole that is smaller than most tripod type joints diameter.
In the US this may not be a problem as there are so many parts outlets & more folk doing modifications.
BUT here it was not EZ @ all.
I ended up scavenging old Subaru bits from a scrap heap of old 1/2 shafts. The inner tripod joint I needed was 72mm OD or there abouts.
Modern joints are nearly all around 85mm OD & just won't fit or work. Some VW's are 100mm.
The transmission you shouldn't have too much trouble with.
R16 4speed with bell housing is about 540mm [someone else may be more accurate]. What is the VW?
Having the external VW drive flanges rather than an internal spline should make things much, much easier when fabricating.
Correct: There is movement of about 10mm overall or about 5mm either way.
That movement is established @ the transmission end with a sliding [tripod] type CV joint or similar.
Any front wheel drive 1/2 shaft will have this or similar setup.
The main thing in setting up a fabricated 1/2 shaft [& it's not that hard to do] is the tripod is centred in it's slide when the outer end CV & axle drive is fully home against the outer axle hub face. i.e where the oil seal runs that meets with the inner bearing or hub face.
Again the inner balls should be central in the slide @ that critical distance. See below~
This setting up/measuring must all be done when the wheels are on the ground & the vehicle loaded!
Also CRITICAL with the light 15, 11BL is that the frame has a hole that is smaller than most tripod type joints diameter.
In the US this may not be a problem as there are so many parts outlets & more folk doing modifications.
BUT here it was not EZ @ all.
I ended up scavenging old Subaru bits from a scrap heap of old 1/2 shafts. The inner tripod joint I needed was 72mm OD or there abouts.
Modern joints are nearly all around 85mm OD & just won't fit or work. Some VW's are 100mm.
The transmission you shouldn't have too much trouble with.
R16 4speed with bell housing is about 540mm [someone else may be more accurate]. What is the VW?
Having the external VW drive flanges rather than an internal spline should make things much, much easier when fabricating.
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FI: This is how I mounted up 2007 Astra, Opel, Saturn Calipers/discs/hubs etc.
I would use a more substantial bolt up arrangement between the swivel housing & spacer holding the caliper mounting bracket if I did this again, but it is just as good as the original backing plate arrangement. I would weld a piece of water~jetted 3/8" plate with 6 equidistant holes @ a larger diameter to the Citroen plate with 6 backing plate holes.
The spacer would be the same diameter right thru with 2 ~ 3/8" water jetted & holes cut to tapping size welded on each end.
One end would also be cut with provision to fit the brake calipers.
6 holes in the spacer would be threaded @ one end & the other spacer end threaded to bolt on the hub.
I used this Saturn set up to get/be able to use these 15" Astra wheels that are well in character with the car ~
The 1/2 shafts I made were made of 2 halves welded together.
Cut to establish correct overall length, center drilled, doweled together, both 1/2's chamfered, TIG welded & lime box cooled.
1/2 was Subaru with the small 72mm OD diameter to go through the Light 15 frame with no interference or cutting.
The other 1/2 was also Subaru Brumby A425 or SB~7~001
& if I did again I would look @ maybe an easier method like Saturn/Astra drive ends if they are long enough. There may be another way, but they were not long enough in my case & I was in a hurry.
Why would I look for another way? I did have to modify the drive end splines & that cost!
Notice the spacers up front as this part must be long whereas most modern ones are short.
One may be able to buy a blank & machine as needed.
I would use a more substantial bolt up arrangement between the swivel housing & spacer holding the caliper mounting bracket if I did this again, but it is just as good as the original backing plate arrangement. I would weld a piece of water~jetted 3/8" plate with 6 equidistant holes @ a larger diameter to the Citroen plate with 6 backing plate holes.
The spacer would be the same diameter right thru with 2 ~ 3/8" water jetted & holes cut to tapping size welded on each end.
One end would also be cut with provision to fit the brake calipers.
6 holes in the spacer would be threaded @ one end & the other spacer end threaded to bolt on the hub.
I used this Saturn set up to get/be able to use these 15" Astra wheels that are well in character with the car ~
The 1/2 shafts I made were made of 2 halves welded together.
Cut to establish correct overall length, center drilled, doweled together, both 1/2's chamfered, TIG welded & lime box cooled.
1/2 was Subaru with the small 72mm OD diameter to go through the Light 15 frame with no interference or cutting.
The other 1/2 was also Subaru Brumby A425 or SB~7~001
Why would I look for another way? I did have to modify the drive end splines & that cost!
Notice the spacers up front as this part must be long whereas most modern ones are short.
One may be able to buy a blank & machine as needed.
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BTW:
Most Subaru & many other brand outer axle ends have, I think from memory 25 splines ~ so many makes outer axle ends splines will fit the CV joint & stub axle housing.
The stub axle housing is important as it's splines drive the hub.
One has to have enough dia. & length to machine new splines if going that route.
I did this then had the housing hardened in Melb.
Another machinist, I use, indicated the hardening was not necessary. I don't know.
Also many of these CV joints, especially the Chinese ones, parts like race, balls, cage etc. interchange so if new there are many parts one can interchange or mix & match. Careful with the cage & notice on the diagram it goes in in a particular way!
E.g. In my case it was an Austin 1800 housing [not Chinese made] that had the correct splines cut to suit the Astra/Saturn drive hubs.
The race, balls & cage were new Subaru Brumby fitted on a Subaru Brumby 25 spline axle.
All fitted up perfectly.
Anyone changing to disc brakes feel free to PM.
Most Subaru & many other brand outer axle ends have, I think from memory 25 splines ~ so many makes outer axle ends splines will fit the CV joint & stub axle housing.
The stub axle housing is important as it's splines drive the hub.
One has to have enough dia. & length to machine new splines if going that route.
I did this then had the housing hardened in Melb.
Another machinist, I use, indicated the hardening was not necessary. I don't know.
Also many of these CV joints, especially the Chinese ones, parts like race, balls, cage etc. interchange so if new there are many parts one can interchange or mix & match. Careful with the cage & notice on the diagram it goes in in a particular way!
E.g. In my case it was an Austin 1800 housing [not Chinese made] that had the correct splines cut to suit the Astra/Saturn drive hubs.
The race, balls & cage were new Subaru Brumby fitted on a Subaru Brumby 25 spline axle.
All fitted up perfectly.
Anyone changing to disc brakes feel free to PM.
Attachments
Wasn't following this & I just picked it up Pete & read through it ~
If I did again I would use Subaru discs etc much more plentiful & would be easier to adapt although mine were not too bad.
Check out the wheels if you can get steel ones like I used off an Astra that really look period. Subaru & Astra do not have the same PCD.
Suzuki may help here?
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Good stuff. Thanks John!