Formula 1 this year

gti138 said:
Statistically Schumacher is the greatest driver ever. I disagree.
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If you want stats .. this site http://chicanef1.dyndns.org/ is always pretty good for things like .... me .. well I was a Piquet fan, now F1 doesn't interest me that much. Dirt is for racing, tarmac is just how to get there :)


Driver Top Six Finishes
Michael Schumacher 158
Alain Prost 128
Nelson Piquet 100
David Coulthard 96
Ayrton Senna 96
Gerhard Berger 95
Rubens Barrichello 90
Mika Hakkinen 83
Nigel Mansell 82
Riccardo Patrese 73
Niki Lauda 73


Driver Championship Wins
Michael Schumacher 7
Juan Manuel Fangio 5
Alain Prost 4
Ayrton Senna 3
Nelson Piquet 3
Niki Lauda 3
Jackie Stewart 3
Jack Brabham 3


Driver Races Contested
Riccardo Patrese 257
Michele Alboreto 215
Andrea de Cesaris 214
Michael Schumacher 213
Gerhard Berger 210
Nelson Piquet 207
Jean Alesi 202
Alain Prost 202

- xTc -
 
XTC206 said:
If you want stats .. this site http://chicanef1.dyndns.org/ is always pretty good for things like .... me .. well I was a Piquet fan, now F1 doesn't interest me that much. Dirt is for racing, tarmac is just how to get there :)

- xTc -
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I like anything with an engine that goes fast, I'll watch anything from stuff like Junkyard Wars and Monster Garage on Discovery to Speedway, F1, Touring Cars, Rally, Club Motorsport, Bikes etc etc.

My first love is F1 though I must admit.
 
gti138 said:
If your number 1 then I must be number 2.
I'd like to see that article too!
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I'm not No1, just one of many no1 fans hehe. But like your self I had lots of Senna stuff, but all in South America (birth place). When I was growing up i was always into race cars, Senna was one of my heroes, like Maradona, every latino boy wanted to be just like him. I always felt a real connection with the man, and because most Latin countries are similar in way of life it was easy to see were he was coming from.
I noticed someone said Senna made less mistakes than Shui, but Senna made lots of mistakes, you just didn't know about it. Fact is he was never happy, he would reach what was a suppossed pinnicle, then try to go further, because once you got to the peak it just turned into norm and the peak was instantly reset, higher and higher.
We have a relo (in SA) who owns an actual Senna helmet, and met his sister when buying it at an auction. Its was an old helmet, but a true collection item.
I'm over the poster and model cars thing.... but I'm jealous of your collection, 10 year ago i thought that would be cool. The only item i personally own as a form of memobrilia (spell?) is some videos and a model of him in a go-kart, yellow helmet, black overalls and sideways. Well done you lucky sod... sniff sniff. I get so worked up when talking about him>>> I have to run to the loo and have a little cry now. lol. - Chris

ps. In Brazil they have Churches dedicated to him, entire schools and his old Karts on display near his house.... bugger.
 
CHRI'S16 said:
We have a relo (in SA) who owns an actual Senna helmet, and met his sister when buying it at an auction. Its was an old helmet, but a true collection item.
I'm over the poster and model cars thing.... but I'm jealous of your collection, 10 year ago i thought that would be cool.
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All the stuff I've got has slowly accumulated over the past 15 years or so. When I sit back and have a look you realise how much stuff you collect. A helmet would be amazing but yeah slightly out of reach $$ wise.
 
Senna raced Schumi early in his career, Schumi with Benneton with Ford factory backed engines and Senna with his McLaren andf customer Ford engines (claimed 80 hp less). Senna outqualified Schumi every race except for 1 or 2 races. And b4 anyone sez Schumi didnt have experience, consider that its at the beginning of the F1 career that drivers are considered to have the most 'raw' speed over one lap....93 season was Schumi's second full season.

Of course im a huge Senna fan with everything mentioned (t-shirts, playing cards, model cars etc). Needless to say he's the best that ive seen. Ive read his biography and he was so incredible.

Does anyone remember whats dubbed to be the most spectacular lap performed by an F1 driver in history? Donnington 93 in the wet when Senna overtook Schumacher, Wendliger, Hill and finally Prost to take the lead at the end of the first lap......it was magical to watch. Schumi stands out in the rain but he isnt the master...
 
I grew up as a Prost fan, but even I acknowledge Senna's flawed genius.

Senna's problem was that he was too competitive, almost fanatically so, and he would do things like drive into the back of Prost at 200 km/h on purpose, which when you think about it... is just plain silly.

The sport wasn't big enough for the the two of them, and it is interesting to note that at Prost's last GP (Adelaide '93) he and Senna 'made up' on the podium. Senna shook Prost's hand and said 'maybe now we can be friends'.

The fact that Prost was a pall-bearer at his funeral shows the level of respect that Prost had for Senna.

But when comparing Prost and Senna, you have to remember that they were almost a generation apart. When Senna came to McLaren in '88, he was the young ambitious driver with everything to prove... whereas Prost was a double-world champion with the record number of race wins who had been there, done that... and got the T-shirt.

Indeed, you can compare Prost and Senna from '88 to '90 as a mirror image of Lauda and Prost from '84 to '85. Both times, it was a experienced champion up against a younger, more ambitious rival.

Saying that Schumacher has had strong teammates in Verstappen and Irvine, is quite frankly... ludicrous.

For one, Irvine had it in his contract that he had to pull over for Schumacher. And I'm pretty sure he had no access to the T-car.

And have Irvine and Verstappen set the world on fire in other cars?

If winning a world championship for Ferrari is so difficult, how come Irvine came so close to it in '99?? It would have been the ultimate irony for all the Schumacher fans if that after breaking his legs, Eddie Irvine showed him how it was done :D In fact, if Schumacher had driven harder at Suzuka that year and managed to beat Hakkinen, then Irvine would have been world champion. There have always been some dark rumblings and mutterings about Schuey's efforts in that race.... but I guess that is for the history books.

Of course Schumacher is one of the fastest drivers ever, and in the modern era of F1 (which is 2-3 back-to-back sprints) he reigns supreme. For me, Schuey hit his peak as a young driver for Benetton. But ever since he tried to push Villeneuve off at Jerez in '97, I've got no time for him.

IMO, Schumacher thinks he is bigger than the sport. The antics at Austria in '02 are a good example. And the fact that he can push Alonso onto the grass at 250 km/h at Silverstone and get away with it (whereas Montoya touches Rubens at a 2nd gear hairpin and gets pinged) shows that perhaps the FIA agree.

Regarding that F1 racing article, I threw out most of my old magazines earlier this month when I moved house. Try googling it and see what happens.
 
Pug-a-lug said:
For one, Irvine had it in his contract that he had to pull over for Schumacher. And I'm pretty sure he had no access to the T-car.

And have Irvine and Verstappen set the world on fire in other cars?
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Well Verstappen had a good go at setting the world on fire at Hockenheim in '94! :D
 
Pug-a-lug said:
I grew up as a Prost fan, but even I acknowledge Senna's flawed genius.

Senna's problem was that he was too competitive, almost fanatically so, and he would do things like drive into the back of Prost at 200 km/h on purpose, which when you think about it... is just plain silly.
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Respect for Prost but you didnt metion that Senna did that to Prost for what happened the year before at the same circuit (u probably know this) when Prost ran into Senna when he was on the verge of overtaking him. Prost was proclaimed World champion from that moment on. And anyone that argue otherwise should have a look at Prosts on board camera - Prost knows Senna was on the inside and at least 3/4 level with him when Prost turned in prematurely (if you follow the course of his front right tyre, his apex was 3 metres before the corner on the grass!!!!!!!!)

Senna proceeded to get a push from the marshals, stoped for a new front wing, got back on the circuit in 2nd, passed Nannini and took the win. Senna was then disqualified for getting a push by a marshal however back then a marshals push was allowed if the car was in a dangerous position whick it was. Senna was stripped of his win and Prost won the championship :evil:

However when Senna did this a year later, there was still the rift that had started the year before between Senna and the Governing body which HAPPENED to be presided by a Frenchman Balestre. The argument was raised by Senna who as the pole sitter (and rightfully so) asked for pole position to be moved to the clean side of the circuit. Balestre denied him that right (again siding with Prost). Prost was given the clean side of the circuit, got the better start so Senna took justice by his own hands (awesome footage from Senna's on board camera!)...and became World Champion

Its important to set the records straight on what really happened and why it go to those extremes

Not pretty, but as a Senna fan, ever so sweet :approve:
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gti138 said:
This could turn into a "who's the greatest" debate very quickly and there are plenty of dedicated F1 forums for that so go there if you want to go on about who's the greatest.
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ahem... wise words. - Chris
 
renaultturbo - Oh I completely agree that Suzuka '90 was revenge for Suzuka '89.

Prost said before the race that 'many times over the past seasons I've kept the door open for Senna. This time I won't.'

Senna probably had the line for the chicane in '89, but Prost closed the door.

But there is a difference between bumping someone at a 1st gear chicane, and T-boning them at 200 km/h. Telemetry shows that Senna's foot was still at full throttle at the moment of impact!! :eek:
 
Yeah Senna said admitted years later that he thought ' If he (prost) beats me to the first corner, none of us will come out of it '

There will never be anything like the Prost - Senna duel in F1

I remember seeing Senna's on board camera when they came together in 89: all you see is Prost calmly climbing out, pulling his gloves off and standing on the side thinkin he was already world champion, then watching Senna waving frantically to the Japanese marshals for a push...
 
Yeah I remember that.

Senna smashing his fists on the steering wheel.. he can't believe that it has just happened... and he refuses to believe!!

And Prost looks over at him, and just gives him a Gallic shrug of the shoulders... sort of a 'what did you expect?' suggestion... and climbs out.
 
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