Formula 1 this year

GTI124

GTI124

who? when? huh?
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With a bunch of new rules changes coming in, do you think this will hamper or hinder the competition? I thought the one engine thing helped Ferrari last year...

I just got this from Panasonic/Toyota on their changes, anyone have something for Renault or the other teams?

New Regulations.
With the aim of reducing costs & performance, new regulations have also been introduced this year. These changes can be summarized as follows:
Tires: A single set must now last through both qualifying & the entire race, however access to wet & extreme weather tires will also be allowed.

Engines: These must now last for TWO complete race weekends (around 1,500kms). Penalties exist if engine changes are required.

Aerodynamics: These aerodynamic regulations have been dramatically changed in a bid to reduce downforce & hence further reduce performance, especially when cornering. Below is an explanation of the changes as they apply to the Panasonic Toyota Racing Team.

Toyota TF104B vs TF105
Changes to the technical regulations for the 2005 season have greatly affected the design of the TF105 race car with notable alterations to the aerodynamics. These new regulations have targeted four specific areas on Formula 1 cars: front wing, rear wing, side diffusers and the rear of the car.
A side view comparison of the TF104B with the new TF105

1. The nose cone is higher to cope with the new regulations of the new wings
2. The front wing has been raised by 5cm under new aerodynamic regulations
3. Although quite similar in shape to the TF104B, the TF105 chassis is higher in lower section to the floor and ground
4. A massive amount of work has been done to reduce the cross-section of the TF105 and the sidepods of the TF105 are considerably lower than those of its TF104B predecessor
5. As for No. 4
6. Chimneys play a greater aerodynamic role in 2005 and are bigger compared to the TF104B
7. Although rear aerodynamic tools are similar to last year, a lot of detailed work has been undertaken to minimise the loss of downforce imposed by 2005 technical regulations
8. As for No. 7
9. Exhaust chimney at the rear of the TF105 are greatly reduced in size
10. Due to the new regulations there is no more seal between the underbody and the tyres
11. In accordance with new rules, the rear wing needs two top elements pushed forward. They must start from the rear axle. The overhang of the endplate remains the same.
Click to expand...
 
It will just mean the better R&D (ie rich) teams will get fast again, quicker. I hate to say this but by December this year we will be talking about Ferrari on top... shame; i like to dream I'm wrong though. - Chris
 
This Ferrari winning cycle WILL come to an end very soon...round abouts the time that Herr Schumacher hangs his helmet up. And i hope for the Regie to take the batton!

I like Renault's choice 4 the second driver, very good decision. Fisichella is an underated driver that has fallen victim to the 'in the wrong car at the wrong time' syndrome and not at his fault. He gets the job done, im suprised how stupid Williams were for not picking him up. For their sake Heidfeld better come out of his shell...
 
renaulturbo said:
I like Renault's choice 4 the second driver, very good decision. Fisichella is an underated driver that has fallen victim to the 'in the wrong car at the wrong time' syndrome and not at his fault. He gets the job done, im suprised how stupid Williams were for not picking him up. For their sake Heidfeld better come out of his shell...
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Flavio Briatore isn't stupid, he's a business man first and foremost. Mark Webber's from his stable as well as Fisichella and Flavio needed a driver for Renault. Both are very good drivers so farm out the one that Williams wanted the most (read: the most $$$) and retain the services of the other. Makes perfect business sense. Rumour has it Flavio told Frank he could have Webber's services as long as he wouldn't go after Fisichella as well. Fisi and Webber have both outpaced their respective team mates and it would have been great to see them both in the same team but alas... Briatore had Williams by the short and curlies on this one.

Rich
 
it will be intresting to see how the remains of jaguar, now redbull, will perform this season. They have at least one good driver, i wonder if DC will provide results though
 
I honestly think that the whole F1 game is moving the wrong way...

The changes they have made in the last decade have been negative and in retrospect obviously flawed.

One of the key factors missing from todays F1 racing is overtaking.

The reason for the lack of overtaking (in my mind atleast) is simple.

F1 cars punch a hole through the air and as the wings are designed to provide downforce, they leave a hole of fast moving turbulent non laminar airflow behind them.

This means that even if a following vehicle is faster cannot travel close enough behind attempt an overtaking manouvure without losing a significant amount of downforce. Once the vehicle loses this downforce (aerodynamic grip) the car relies more and more on mechanical grip.

This means that if a driver wants to get in a position to overtake he must risk causing damage to the vehicles tyres. Kill the tyres and your race is screwed anyway...

The powers that be - in a bid to reduce the speed of the cars -reduced the one constant - mechanical grip, by adding grooves to the tyres. This means that when you get close behind another vehicle you lose even more grip. Good for racing...not...

To my way of thinking, F1 has always been a formula where engineers have been able to try new ideas and break new ground. The recent regulations have removed this element to a large degree...

I personally think there are other ways to reduce the speed of the vehicles.

My 5 step plan would be -

1, Reduce Engine Capacity to 1600 or 2000cc (the most common engine sizes worldwide) and allow any N/A configuration - 4, V6, V8, V10
This would substantially reduce engine power and make the power differences between the lower budget teams and the bigger budget teams smaller

2, Remove all external aerodynamic devices (wings and ground effects)
This would allow more overtaking as the vehicles would be more reliant on mechanical grip

3, Maintain maximum weight at 600kg and maintain current crash safety standards.

4, Allow the engineers to have free reign within the above rules.
As Colin Chapman proved, a good idea can go alot further than a big budget.

5, Bring back Slicks (and allow different tyre sizes and widths)

In a nutshell I would love to see high powered, mega budget, hi-tech 'formula ford' racing with the best drivers in the world being able to pull off Go'Kart style manouveres in cars that actually look different and have different strengths and weaknesses on different parts of the track...
 
Do you have to keep the same engine config for the entire season?

I think some of the changes in aerodynamics this year are designed to improve overtaking... we'll wait and see, I guess.
 
Zen said:
Flavio Briatore isn't stupid, he's a business man first and foremost. Mark Webber's from his stable as well as Fisichella and Flavio needed a driver for Renault. Both are very good drivers so farm out the one that Williams wanted the most (read: the most $$$) and retain the services of the other. Makes perfect business sense. Rumour has it Flavio told Frank he could have Webber's services as long as he wouldn't go after Fisichella as well. Fisi and Webber have both outpaced their respective team mates and it would have been great to see them both in the same team but alas... Briatore had Williams by the short and curlies on this one.

Rich
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Webber is still managed by Flav??

Sorry im not a Webber fan, never was. I think his a good driver in all; his consistent, his got a bit of speed but is no where near the raw talent of Alonso and Raikkonen. His never been put up against a decent team mate and lets not forget how old he is. People tend to get caught up in the whole patriotic thing i think and start pitting him against Schumacher :roflmao:

Ok same league as Fisichella and Williams may think better...although my opinion is Williams chose Webber over Fisi because Webber is a fresher face in F1 and is keen to go on a punt that he's got the talent to drive in a big team after driving lemons since he entered F1. But lets not forget Fisichella hasnt had very good drives since entering F1...until now.

Just my opinion and could well be wrong, we'll see what Webber does this year. We'll also see if Heidfeld will make or break finally this year after being hailed as a prodigy when he entered F1...
 
1, Reduce Engine Capacity to 1600 or 2000cc (the most common engine sizes worldwide) and allow any N/A configuration - 4, V6, V8, V10
This would substantially reduce engine power and make the power differences between the lower budget teams and the bigger budget teams smaller

2, Remove all external aerodynamic devices (wings and ground effects)
This would allow more overtaking as the vehicles would be more reliant on mechanical grip

3, Maintain maximum weight at 600kg and maintain current crash safety standards.

4, Allow the engineers to have free reign within the above rules.
As Colin Chapman proved, a good idea can go alot further than a big budget.

5, Bring back Slicks (and allow different tyre sizes and widths)
[/QUOTE]

We already have V8 supercars :clown:
 
renault turbo and Zen; I see both your points. If life was good there would so much less politics in F1 , but hey.... its formula 1 isn't?
Webber and Fisi would not develop the Williams well any way. In their own right they are both excelent drivers, Fisi is THE most underated driver, as ren already pointed out. But Mark is a better package.
Fisi has a contrasting style compared to Webber. The Williams tech wouldn't be able to develop the cars at the same (fast) rate that Webber and Hiedfield would. Webber and Hiedfield compliment each other as racers and would allow Williams to gain excelent data and input from these two, were as fisi would provide too much contrast and would leave the techs in two minds.
I'm personally a big fan of all 3, but prefer giancarlo (fisi), i love that euro fire that he brings. I also like Trully, when he is ON... on any given lap he IS the fastest man in F1, and you can take that to the bank.

Mistareno - agree... i always liked the fact that F1 pushed the boundaries, unfortunately the tracks and the fund managers havn't kept up.
the formula you described sounds like Formula ford with slicks.... actually sounds just like Karting..... but as you put it, tis formula ford with slicks.

BUT... if they wan't to increase overtaking, all they need to do is remove the mirrors....., trust me it would do wonders. - Chris.

ps linc.. what have you started... hehe. :D
 
mistareno - you'd have to give the cars some downforce. A Formula Ford weighs about the same as an F1 car but has a fraction of the power.

An F1 car (even with a 2 litre N/A engine) would still require some downforce for stability and control.

F3 still manages some overtaking, and they have small wings. The difference is that F3 have a control tyre that I believe is a very hard compound. People think that the tyre war is killing F1, as no matter how much downforce you generate, the tyres can still provide the grip.

If you make the tyre very hard, increasing the downforce won't necessarily give you an increase in grip.

So having huge supercomputers and wind tunnels giving you the extra %'s of downforce are negated by the tyres.

I'm an aerodynamicist, but I agree that the cars are too reliant on aerodynamic grip which makes for poor racing.

Reduce the wings, increase the size of the SLICKS!!! and lets get racing again :cheers:
 
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Pug-a-lug said:
mistareno - you'd have to give the cars some downforce. A Formula Ford weighs about the same as an F1 car but has a fraction of the power.
Click to expand...

Formula 1 is supposed to be a test of the world's best drivers isn't it :D :D :D

400 hp Formula Fords going hell for leather...I'd go and watch that :banana: :banana: :banana:
 
Well the FIA have slowly been reducing the size and area of wings allowed.
But I think we all agree the PASSING NEEDS TO INCREASE, hence this is my proposal;-
* Reduce wing size/area by 25%
* Return to a full slick tyre, by two manufacturers, of which one month race will be brand X the next month Y, and then continue to alternate.
* Remove rear mirrors and replace with sideways only mirrors (ir fixed non adjustable, control mirror.

What do we think. - Chris
 
I've always thought that F1's have had too much aerodynamic grip and not enough power.

So my ideal F1 would be:

  • Allow the engine manufacturers to produce engines with whatever power they can screw out of a 1.5l turbo. I loved the days of the huge white ploom's of smoke you got when a turbo car blew itself to shreads.
  • Leave tyre widths as they are but introduce slicks to increase mechanical grip.
  • Reduce wing sizes and shapes to reduce overall downforce
  • Remove all semi-automatic gearboxes and other "driver aids"
  • Pay all drivers a set fee of $100,000 but introduce a payment system (say $1,000,000 per point) that goes on a rewards scheme. ie. laps led, fastest laps, pole positions, race wins, positions gained, etc.
When you bring money into the equation then im sure you'd get people passing.
 
gti138 said:
I've always thought that F1's have had too much aerodynamic grip and not enough power.

So my ideal F1 would be:

  • Allow the engine manufacturers to produce engines with whatever power they can screw out of a 1.5l turbo. I loved the days of the huge white ploom's of smoke you got when a turbo car blew itself to shreads.
  • Leave tyre widths as they are but introduce slicks to increase mechanical grip.
  • Reduce wing sizes and shapes to reduce overall downforce
  • Remove all semi-automatic gearboxes and other "driver aids"
  • Pay all drivers a set fee of $100,000 but introduce a payment system (say $1,000,000 per point) that goes on a rewards scheme. ie. laps led, fastest laps, pole positions, race wins, positions gained, etc.
When you bring money into the equation then im sure you'd get people passing.
Click to expand...
ooh, i likee verry much. But the money idea is already there. Its called sponsor pressure. I don't like the turbo idea though, the cars would be too quiet, they aren't loud enough as they are now :roflmao: -Chris
 
CHRI'S16 said:
ooh, i likee verry much. But the money idea is already there. Its called sponsor pressure. I don't like the turbo idea though, the cars would be too quiet, they aren't loud enough as they are now :roflmao: -Chris
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True about the turbos - but I loved seeing them blow up all the time. I remember at the 1985 Adelade Grand Prix - Alan Jones blew up the Beatrice Ford twice right in front of me!

They could make it so sponsors only paid if the drivers earned points. So that way it puts all the pressure back on the drivers :)
 
stop whinging and watch Champ Car... sooo much better :

control tyres (standard and red label)
control engines (massive turbos)

no tyre warmers
no ABS
no traction control
manual shift (but with rev cut)

Push to Pass (inc. boost inc. rev limit = 50HP) for 60 seconds (hold button down)
Decent Points table
Pole, Most Laps Led bonuses


Race Car Comparison
 
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XsaraVTS said:
stop whinging and watch Champ Car... sooo much better :

control tyres (standard and red label)
control engines (massive turbos)

no tyre warmers
no ABS
no traction control
manual shift (but with rev cut)

Push to Pass (inc. boost inc. rev limit = 50HP) for 60 seconds (hold button down)
Decent Points table
Pole, Most Laps Led bonuses


Race Car Comparison
Click to expand...


oval circuts are pointless and put me to sleep, anyone can drive a car in a circle, they should have 1 max per season. Also if they actually had proper tracks (more corners) in champ car it might be more intresting... it seems most tracks they use for champ cars have lots of straight bits
 
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what has you all so disillusioned

***king ChampCar is NOT IRL GodDammit

2004 had 6 temporary street circuits, 6 permanent road courses and only 2 ovals


Track Types
 
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Champ Cars no longer race on Ovals as far as I know. They split off a few years ago and formed the Indy Racing League.

Interesting article in The Age today in which Ross Brawn claims that the new regulations regarding banning tyre changes during a race will hurt Schuey, as he is very hard on tyres.... much harder that Rubens.

We can only hope eh?
 
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