DS21 BVH accumulator sphere

J

jonf

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Fellow Frogger
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
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341
Location
north fitzroy, victoria
I concede. I am defeated, deflated, depressed. The accumulator sphere has reduced me to a quivering mess.

My pump is cycling every 7 or 8 seconds, but each corner suspension sphere seems ok and there are no visible fluid leaks from brakes, HP pump or steering rack. The car goes well….just the pump runs all the time.

I visited Wolfgang yesterday and got a replacement 62 bar sphere to swap over the accumulator.

This morning I spent a frustrating few grimy hours contemplating how to extract said sphere glaring and cursing from above and below….. and have come to the conclusion that it is simply not possible without a hoist or double-jointed wrists. Or both. Or pulling half the car apart.

If there is a trick, and I have read all the Aussiefrogs threads, please can someone tell me. Otherwise I am off to a ridgy-didge mechanic type person who knows how to do this stuff properly.

Any recommendations?
cheers
Jon still licking wounds and feeling the heavy weight of failure.
 
The standard welded 62 Bar accumulator is larger than the original 2-piece item and it doesn't come out like the original item can. If you have a hoist, you can remove the welded accumulator from below if you use a length of timber to move the engine on the mounts and move it along until you can remove it through a larger opening. From above, try breaking the seal and then unbolt the regulator unit so you can move it enough to remove the accumulator by itself. You will probably need to remove the regulator with the accumulator still fitted.

Don't forget you also have a brake accumulator in the LHF corner. Has that ever had any attention? It might pay to take off the LH guard for better access to both of these accumulators.
 
jonf said:
I concede. I am defeated, deflated, depressed. The accumulator sphere has reduced me to a quivering mess.

My pump is cycling every 7 or 8 seconds, but each corner suspension sphere seems ok and there are no visible fluid leaks from brakes, HP pump or steering rack. The car goes well….just the pump runs all the time.

I visited Wolfgang yesterday and got a replacement 62 bar sphere to swap over the accumulator.

This morning I spent a frustrating few grimy hours contemplating how to extract said sphere glaring and cursing from above and below….. and have come to the conclusion that it is simply not possible without a hoist or double-jointed wrists. Or both. Or pulling half the car apart.

If there is a trick, and I have read all the Aussiefrogs threads, please can someone tell me. Otherwise I am off to a ridgy-didge mechanic type person who knows how to do this stuff properly.

Any recommendations?
cheers
Jon still licking wounds and feeling the heavy weight of failure.
Click to expand...
I could just manage to remove and replace an ID19 acc. welded sphere from underneath by jacking the sump on a block of wood. Car on stands. Steel strap with a swivel arm. Scraped knuckles.
 
p.s. Remember the original style return hose from the regulator was not reinforced, so if you start moving it about and it's old and hard, you may end up with an Exxon Valdez situation.
 
IIRC, there is a plastic/nylon T piece on the accumulator return line that will be equally brittle.
 
jonf said:
I concede. I am defeated, deflated, depressed. The accumulator sphere has reduced me to a quivering mess.

My pump is cycling every 7 or 8 seconds, but each corner suspension sphere seems ok and there are no visible fluid leaks from brakes, HP pump or steering rack. The car goes well….just the pump runs all the time.

I visited Wolfgang yesterday and got a replacement 62 bar sphere to swap over the accumulator.

This morning I spent a frustrating few grimy hours contemplating how to extract said sphere glaring and cursing from above and below….. and have come to the conclusion that it is simply not possible without a hoist or double-jointed wrists. Or both. Or pulling half the car apart.

If there is a trick, and I have read all the Aussiefrogs threads, please can someone tell me. Otherwise I am off to a ridgy-didge mechanic type person who knows how to do this stuff properly.

Any recommendations?
cheers
Jon still licking wounds and feeling the heavy weight of failure.
Click to expand...
Hi Jon. You can remove it from above but it is an exercise in patience. I did it recently on a 23 bvh which is worse than most. I didn’t need to remove the regulator but did undo the hydraulic lines to get them out of the way. As with all things Citroen remove more bits around the item being worked on than you would think is needed. It is better in the long run.
 
I got my welded sphere out from underneath on a standard set of car ramps..
A couple of taps on a sharp chisel placed on the weld easily loosened it. Then I had to roll and wriggle it forward to where there was an opening that was just big enough to extract it downwards. IIRC I think I may have lifted the engine slightly with a block of wood, the same as SuppleC.
 
Greenpeace said:
I got my welded sphere out from underneath on a standard set of car ramps..
A couple of taps on a sharp chisel placed on the weld easily loosened it. Then I had to roll and wriggle it forward to where there was an opening that was just big enough to extract it downwards. IIRC I think I may have lifted the engine slightly with a block of wood, the same as SuppleC.
Click to expand...
it usually doesn't fit past the cross member if you use welded spheres 🤔 So you need to remove the regulator. The squat standard accumulator just fits out :)
 
if you take it out from the top with the regulator connected like all of the units you'll need to loosen off the pipe nut and then undo the bracket then you can wriggle off the inlet pipe from the reg. On replacing fit the pipe to position into the regulator with the nut centred and a few threads in then move onto bolt up the bracket. Then final tightening of pipe. A set of stands is obviously needed if going from underneath placed correctly but a hoist will make it alot easier. Just depends on how good your back is feeling! Jacking the sump is important, its like 2cm clearance you need on the crossbar. I think if the sphere is happy to come off then I'd go from underneath as it will be a little more straight forward and less fiddly. Otherwise from top if there's stuff in the way move it!
 
DoubleChevron said:
it usually doesn't fit past the cross member if you use welded spheres 🤔 So you need to remove the regulator. The squat standard accumulator just fits out :)
Click to expand...
Nah, my welded sphere came out underneath, I think I.actually read you could do it on a thread somewhere on here, before I attempted it.
It's tight, and you have to jack the engine up 10mm and hold your tongue just right, but it comes out.
 
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i usually remove the regulator and sphere in one piece, a bit fiddly, once you done it a couple of times its not so bad.
 
ok half way there…. from the top, coil out of the way, sphere removed…

fuel pump out or left in?

should i be removing the regulator with its brackets
….. or regulator removed from its brackets?

the accumulator sphere is tight on the regulator … and i broke my sphere removal tool whilst undoing the front left sphere so now have to replace the steel strap….!
 
jonf said:
ok half way there…. from the top, coil out of the way, sphere removed…

fuel pump out or left in?

should i be removing the regulator with its brackets
….. or regulator removed from its brackets?

the accumulator sphere is tight on the regulator … and i broke my sphere removal tool whilst undoing the front left sphere so now have to replace the steel strap….!
Click to expand...
Leave the brackets in place. Unbolt regulator from brackets (obviously).

Of course once you have the regulator out you can carefully place it in a bench vice to give plenty of accessibility and purchase to loosen that hard to remove sphere. Replace the sphere to hand tight only.

Replace the pipe seals in the regulator before moving it back down into the space. Get the pressure pipes and nuts to feed into their housing and apply a few turns of thread but leave the fitting loose (tighten later). Then get the bolts into the brackets and mostly tight. Remember to refit the return line.

Once you have all pipes in place tighten the reg on the brackets, then the pipes into the reg.

I've done this a few times over the years and a few weeks ago I visited a new DS owner about 18km away to help him do the same. It was only after refitting that we confirmed the fairly constant on/off problem he had was not the accumulator, but a regulator that would probably benefit from a rebuild. A replacement unit has been supplied, but as the owner is on a long cruise at present it'll be sometime in June before the job is revisited.
 
Greenpeace said:
I got my welded sphere out from underneath on a standard set of car ramps..
A couple of taps on a sharp chisel placed on the weld easily loosened it. Then I had to roll and wriggle it forward to where there was an opening that was just big enough to extract it downwards. IIRC I think I may have lifted the engine slightly with a block of wood, the same as SuppleC.
Click to expand...
I bet it wasn’t a bvh. I always work underneath but a friends bvh had more pipes down there making it impossible
 
Hi Jon , I hope you fare better than me with the too frequent pump cycling. I have a DS21 BVH , with a pump frequency similar to yours (slightly worse).
I have had the steering rack refurbished(as it tested leaking badly internally), the accumulator sphere has been re-gassed and had new seals, the height correctors replaced and the pressure regulator replaced with absolutely no difference to the pump frequency. Many $$$ spent.
I have lost confidence that maintaining my D's is sustainable with my very limited mechanical ability.
Regards Tez
 
Yes, there would be some extra piping on a BVH and it can always be disconnected / moved. The factory manual 814 has this (remember it's written for LHD) ...
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Tez, always ask before you bring out the parts cannon. Maybe, discuss your issue in the separate thread you started about the pump?
 
ok and huge thanx to everyone for chipping in. I will attack again tomorrow and hope I can remember where everything goes when I get to putting it back together.

And Tex / Pale yes it is a challenge to keep them going without the full battery of expertise and tools.... but then that is why Aussiefrogs is sooooooo valuable!
 
There's a lot of noise online about how the pump should cycle every 30 seconds and anything below that is a problem. That might have been achievable when the cars were brand new but even the youngest are now 49 years old and the hydraulic units are all wearing out. The sheer number of places for internal and external leaks is staggering. I think manual 814 goes through all the testing proceedures but failing that 518 definitley does. Most of the on car tests involve inserting blanking plates into the seal flanges to cut off sections of the system or taking the hydraulic units off the car for bench testing.

I'd love to know how the LHD guys go with getting the accumulator out as they have the steering column and BVH brain also jammed into that space
 
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