DS auto electrician Sunny Coast/Bris?

Well I put a toe in the electrical water today…I don’t have the whole car at the moment but I have the left hand front wing disassembled so I went through the loom for that. First thing I discovered is that not all the wires and terminals are black - they’re covered in crap :) Several hours of cleaning and mucking around I can say that it’s pretty original and intact and all the bits at the end of the wires work when I attach earth to battery - and apply + to the various connectors where they joins the main loom. It all looks a lot better and I cleaned various terminals and connections and went with Ian’s top of replacing dead rubber insulators with bits of tube. Was a useful introduction to “how Citroens are wired”.
 
What you have described is encouraging. I would have expected nothing less from the Maleny Maestro, typical of the man's ability to come up with practical solutions. You may have a less simple time with the dreaded relays amassed on the battery case. IIRC there are 5 of them.
It can still be somewhat confusing if the colour coded ends are discoloured. At reassembly time it is easy to overlook the earth connections.
By now you must be discovering the unique unstressed body panels construction of the DS. If you have an entire front wing you will be able to see the ingenious and simple turning headlights mechanism and the mounting methods of the headlight "buckets". Brilliant isn't it.
 
I’d say the number of auto electricians familiar with DS wiring is about the same as mechanics familiar with the cars i.e very, very few

The wiring is pretty simple compared to a modern car so it doesn’t take much more than a multimeter to diagnose problems. Earth connections always have brown sleeves.

If you go down the road of a new loom make sure to stress the point it’s a RHD export market car with either a BW auto or manual transmission as the fuse layout and starter circuit is very different.
 
It's not that complicated if you break the function down. You have the following harnesses:
*Main harness - runs behind the dash and into the engine bay along the scuttle with the main fuse box at LHS.
*Rear harness - plugs into the main harness behind the glovebox and difficult to get at the joins with the dash in. It's easy to follow its route. Where it supplies the tail lamps, give the lamps a good separate earth wire to the body as the earth is expected to be via the number plate holder and most restorers lather everything in paint there.
*L&R front guard harnesses - L&R are much the same with coloured plugs. Each front guard has an earth point via a pigtail with a brown connector to the front of the chassis and visible with the spare wheel removed. Late DS had an added in-line 10A fuse holder for the inner headlamps, one on each side and fitted where the guard harness joins the main harness. It has purple connectors and should be there as the inner lamp circuits are otherwise not protected. Some cars have had DIY added relays for the lighting to save the lighting switch from a high current meltdown.
*Engine harness - just a few wires that plug into main harness near the battery box and hooks up to sensors on the engine. Plus the alternator connections with the remote regulator box on the battery box, if still fitted. If you want to replace the regulator - look for one of the threads covering this before as there is a trap re the warning lamp.
*Horn harness - if it has air horns, there is an added lead from the battery to supply the horn relay at RHF of engine bay. Make sure it can't rub though and short, Better, add an in-line spade fuse near the battery.
*Temp gauge lead - if it has a factory temperature gauge, there is a separate lead that runs from the back of the instrument panel to the additional temp sensor, likely on the aux air valve housing down the LHS of the engine. The manual provides instructions and measurements on how to make this if need be.
*Starter leads - Varies between cars with a start solenoid at the battery and those without. I think the BVA cars may have the battery solenoid? The starter has a bridge for the solenoid when a battery solenoid is fitted, so it operates with one wire. Without the battery solenoid, the bridge must be cut.
*Extension for the washer pump - plugs into harness at RHS and runs across scuttle to washer bottle inside LH of guard on a late 23.
*Extension lead for EFI fuel pump - white lead that plugs into EFI harness on scuttle and runs down RH A-pillar and into sill to the pump. In your car this may or may not be in use to run the electric pump, depending on whether the original EFI control relay at the battery box is still in use.
*EFI harness - an add-on that is entirely separate to the rest of the wiring. It's all black wires taped up and it runs from the ECU in the LH footwell to the battery box relays and to the engine components. There is a separate part of this harness for the engine that connects via yellow and white multi-pin sockets under the scuttle below the full-load switch and pressure sensor. A late 23 would have only two EFI relays - front is system control and the next is for the fuel pump, supplied only when the control relay is energised and under control of the ECU. The control relay is powered by a wire that takes +ve 12V from an often unreliable piggy-back connector on the coil. You might think about adding an inertia cut-off switch eventually.
*AC harness. Another add-on via the two green Sanor branded relays behind the EFI relays on the battery box. The manual explains this system and it only has to operate the blower, compressor and, where fitted, the fans for the twin condensers.

Work your way through it and you will save some sparky cutting it around and making things even harder to follow.
 
Back in 1979, when I was young and invincible, I pulled every inch of wiring out of my '63 ID19, and started again.
I sketched what I wanted on a sheet of butcher's paper , including quite a few more fuses, several relays, and coloured wires as well as the little sleeves. I measured all the lengths, and laid it all out on the dining table.
It took a few days, but was worth it.
I never had a problem again, but had a diagram in my glove box just in case.

Since then I've done the same to both of my 2CVs (GS engines) which use modern self regulating alternator, and other modern features like all LED lighting, and Hazard circuit on the blinkers. Chassis are 1960 and 1961, so we're 6v and very basic.
Recently, I made up a new harness for the IE in my DS21, as the original had several very scrappy repairs, and lots of by-passed wires.

It's not difficult, but requires a clear head and a bit of planning. A few sheets of butcher's paper and coloured felt pens help.
I'm disappointed with the poor quality and high price of the bullet connectors from Franzose...... are there any better quality ones available?
Hint..... buy a good quality crimp plier for the "double" crimp type connectors and lugs.
Don't use the crappy cheap automotive crimp terminals that come with blue, red or yellow sleeves, they are not worth the trouble. They only grip the wire, not the insulation, so any vibration breaks the wires off.

The original Citroën crimp terminals and lugs were very good quality, I'd love to get more the same.
 
Buttercup said:
Back in 1979, when I was young and invincible, I pulled every inch of wiring out of my '63 ID19, and started again.
I sketched what I wanted on a sheet of butcher's paper , including quite a few more fuses, several relays, and coloured wires as well as the little sleeves. I measured all the lengths, and laid it all out on the dining table.
It took a few days, but was worth it.
I never had a problem again, but had a diagram in my glove box just in case.

Since then I've done the same to both of my 2CVs (GS engines) which use modern self regulating alternator, and other modern features like all LED lighting, and Hazard circuit on the blinkers. Chassis are 1960 and 1961, so we're 6v and very basic.
Recently, I made up a new harness for the IE in my DS21, as the original had several very scrappy repairs, and lots of by-passed wires.

It's not difficult, but requires a clear head and a bit of planning. A few sheets of butcher's paper and coloured felt pens help.
I'm disappointed with the poor quality and high price of the bullet connectors from Franzose...... are there any better quality ones available?
Hint..... buy a good quality crimp plier for the "double" crimp type connectors and lugs.
Don't use the crappy cheap automotive crimp terminals that come with blue, red or yellow sleeves, they are not worth the trouble. They only grip the wire, not the insulation, so any vibration breaks the wires off.

The original Citroën crimp terminals and lugs were very good quality, I'd love to get more the same.
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I've not found any bullet connectors like that. Spade terminals are gettable though.
https://au.rs-online.com/web/c/connectors/wire-terminals-splices/spade-connectors/ uninsulated ones here have the two crimps for the wire and the sheath. I've also found soft insulated covers for these around the web.
 
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I totally remade all the looms on my car using thicker gauges in a few places as the original wiring had gotten hot enough to melt the pvc. The coloured sleeves are made of shrink wrap to match the original colours and the bullet connectors are soldered ones designed for RC planes
 
Crikey! Thanks everyone! Very helpful. Suspect when I get the car back I might be seeking some particular help if that’s ok. It starts and runs, mainly getting all the other things to work. With the diagram and advice I’m feeling more confident. Thanks again :)
 
faulksy said:
View attachment 137671View attachment 137669View attachment 137670I totally remade all the looms on my car using thicker gauges in a few places as the original wiring had gotten hot enough to melt the pvc. The coloured sleeves are made of shrink wrap to match the original colours and the bullet connectors are soldered ones designed for RC planes
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Is that "glue" type heat shrink? I think if you put vasoline onto the connectors before connecting them, it might almost be a air/water tight connection. They look like they might have much greater "clamping" force between the two conductors compared to hte origininal connectors as well.
 
Some colours had the adhesive inner but not all. They ended up coming from a few different places to get all 10 colours.

The bullets take a fair bit of force to pull apart unlike the Citroen ones that just fall off. From memory 50 pairs of connectors was about $25. The repro citroen ones are about 3EUR for each connector
 
The Citroën ones don't fall off, if they are "serviced".
Pull the old rubber sleeve off, straighten the 4 tabs, fit new rubber sleeve.
I use 4mm mini garden sprinkler tubing from Bunnings, which gives a very tight fit to the connector.
You can also use 3/16" rubber (windscreen) washer hose, which is more like the original.
 
Not long after I purchased my DS23 ie from the Maleny Maestro, I decided that trying to disconnect and reconnect the wiring harness from the engine compartment to the headlights in each mudguard was not a job for the faint-hearted, fearing wrong connections and all sorts of weird lighting results. The MM said he just cleans the connectors coloured parts on each side and all is OK, but to me they still looked way too similar. So I improvised with a supply of small coloured zip ties, using a matching tie, or pair of ties when I ran out of colours, on each wire on each side of the connector. Works well, although the MM reckons it looks daggy!! It works for me.
Cheers, Robin
 
Yeah it looks daggy, but sometimes you have to put up with daggy, for a bit of practicality.

Usually it's only the pale ones that are easy to mix up. White, pale yellow, lilac, grey. They all fade to a dirty off white.
You probably only need to mark 2 or 3 of them to avoid confusion.
 
Guido said:
Still looking for name of auto sparky familiar with DS wiring if there is one Sunny Coast/Bris. Ian cd sort things but he is time poor and not excited by the prospect…I asked him for recommendations and he said “someone with the middle name Patience” 😆
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Worth a shot but ask Wolfie at Schneider Motors - Rene Str.
 
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