Disconnected Ramblings

OddFireV6 said:
I reckon if the people in this thread were at a party we would get along like a house on fire with our shared interest.
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Totally 100% agree, unfortunately 'flame wars' erupt as a keyboard is unable to impart the non-verbal cues and tone of voice to guide what emphasis is used on which syllables of the sentences as written by Tony and then Russell seeing red as he read the same sentence with an emphasis on different syllables. A phone call between them and it's all sorted.
I did a lot of international support in the early days of emails and had to tailor and increase the adjectives and length of my responses to reduce misinterpretation. When a flame war still did erupt I would make phone contact and attempt to clear the air, and it was always down to different syllables being emphasised.

And hopefully these ramblings will continue unabated.
 
AlexB said:
Totally 100% agree, unfortunately 'flame wars' erupt as a keyboard is unable to impart the non-verbal cues and tone of voice to guide what emphasis is used on which syllables of the sentences as written by Tony and then Russell seeing red as he read the same sentence with an emphasis on different syllables. A phone call between them and it's all sorted.
I did a lot of international support in the early days of emails and had to tailor and increase the adjectives and length of my responses to reduce misinterpretation. When a flame war still did erupt I would make phone contact and attempt to clear the air, and it was always down to different syllables being emphasised.

And hopefully these ramblings will continue unabated.
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I'm really missing Russell's posts about 203s. They were the first thing that I read each day when I opened Aussiefrogs. I was at Primary school when a 203 won the first Redex Round Australia Trial. Soon after that, a family friend from Sydney visited us in his 203. I can remember being so excited being driven to school in his 203, and I've had a soft spot for 203s ever since. But that's not the main reason that I miss Russell's posts. It's not just the 203s in Russell's material that interests me. He provides an unique window on the history and industrial methods, advertising material and society of that era. Russell, we miss you - please reconsider.
 
Well I've had a lot more time since I finished posting! I like history and I'm good at researching. In matters other than cars too. Many the hour I wasted in the dome in the old State Library delving into the bound set of the Autocar back to the 1890's. Rather than my proper studies. There is a plethora of poorly researched articles about now in a number of fields. Some much more important than motor cars. When I researched my book I went to a lot of effort to get it right. Down to seeking three separate references for important points. Not always possible with the early period. Happily it was received as a definitive and authoritative work which is what I wanted. Cars (and other things) are always accompanied with all types of stories. I did a lot of work to separate the story from the fact. Not that errors didn't creep through. I did quite a few articles for Torque when Peter Cusworth was editor. Anyway before I go to print everything is checked and checked again. I have a large collection of books and magazines including French historical vehicles mags from the 1970's that have a lot of Peugeot material. I've always listened and taken note of what older people have said. You learn a lot if you know how to listen. I wish I'd asked more from old Peugeot dealers and mechanics. People like Basil Moran who was the last original 203 purchaser I knew gave so much insight into Canada and the people there like Alec Chapman. I picked up quite a bit from Renault and the people there.
But when I knock together a piece to put up here I don't have the time to put into it. The Canada Cycle and Motor history was an exception. I just try to produce an interesting and hopefully entertaining piece. When I use a single source which is highly trusted and it lets me down I'm doing what I criticise in others, putting up sloppy research. When you go to print, its gone. People may agree or disagree but you never hear from them. Here there is no shortage of people to pick what you've put up to pieces. I believe it's a feature of the internet. So where's the pleasure for me in that? My feeling was (and still is) to let the critics post their own expertise. I'm more at home with the printed word.
The printers will allow me to take my book out to 300 pages so I will continue work on a second edition. Unfortunately low demand and economics will probably see only a proof copy produced. Perhaps I'll be back here when the long nights of winter come.
 
Russell Hall said:
Well I've had a lot more time since I finished posting! I like history and I'm good at researching. In matters other than cars too. Many the hour I wasted in the dome in the old State Library delving into the bound set of the Autocar back to the 1890's. Rather than my proper studies. There is a plethora of poorly researched articles about now in a number of fields. Some much more important than motor cars. When I researched my book I went to a lot of effort to get it right. Down to seeking three separate references for important points. Not always possible with the early period. Happily it was received as a definitive and authoritative work which is what I wanted. Cars (and other things) are always accompanied with all types of stories. I did a lot of work to separate the story from the fact. Not that errors didn't creep through. I did quite a few articles for Torque when Peter Cusworth was editor. Anyway before I go to print everything is checked and checked again. I have a large collection of books and magazines including French historical vehicles mags from the 1970's that have a lot of Peugeot material. I've always listened and taken note of what older people have said. You learn a lot if you know how to listen. I wish I'd asked more from old Peugeot dealers and mechanics. People like Basil Moran who was the last original 203 purchaser I knew gave so much insight into Canada and the people there like Alec Chapman. I picked up quite a bit from Renault and the people there.
But when I knock together a piece to put up here I don't have the time to put into it. The Canada Cycle and Motor history was an exception. I just try to produce an interesting and hopefully entertaining piece. When I use a single source which is highly trusted and it lets me down I'm doing what I criticise in others, putting up sloppy research. When you go to print, its gone. People may agree or disagree but you never hear from them. Here there is no shortage of people to pick what you've put up to pieces. I believe it's a feature of the internet. So where's the pleasure for me in that? My feeling was (and still is) to let the critics post their own expertise. I'm more at home with the printed word.
The printers will allow me to take my book out to 300 pages so I will continue work on a second edition. Unfortunately low demand and economics will probably see only a proof copy produced. Perhaps I'll be back here when the long nights of winter come.
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Welcome back!
 
The first three Australian 203's were already on the water 75 years ago. Peugeot did a small right hand drive run. Probably late March. Production at that time was not many more than twenty cars a day. The RHD market at the time was British Africa, Sweden and Australia. Don't know about others like Malaya and Pacific Islands. Imports of passenger cars were prohibited to the UK until 1951 so the 203 was not seen before 1952 The earliest RHD 203 I know of is in Cape Province SA, June 1949 sale so it's probably from the same run. The 203 body made few concessions to RHD but there were still different parts and assembly line positions needed. It isn't efficient to assemble LHD and RHD cars on the same line so they do runs
mechanical assembly.jpg
. A European maker quoted a minimum RHD run of 500 cars to an Australian importer a few years back. Although this is technically an unskilled job the most capable workers were usually assigned to the mechanical assembly line. That was true of Heidelberg.
In March 1949 there would have been a single line.
 
"Get in you fat cow!" If you know what I mean.
 
It's a mobile dairy. That bloke behind the door is ready with the cups.
 
Peter C said:
When you see these old photos, you realise how just how far car production methods have come.
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There is film of a fully automated Chinese car factory I've never heard of (Xiamoni?) producing forty cars an hour with robots. Report says no human workers but surely it has human supervision.
 
When cars were made with lots of individual tasks performed by assemblers quality depended upon the training, attitude and supervision of the workforce. There needed to be a culture of quality. An experienced industrial workforce is a national asset. This is why German companies snapped up Czech factories after socialism collapsed. On the other hand a peasant workforce with no industrial experience results in AlfaSud. Renault Heidelberg had a culture of quality that did not go beyond the executive offices and a transient workforce with results to match. Some in quality control believed the cars were beyond the capacity of the workforce. The only good thing to say is that there were worse in the Australian industry.
Peugeot invested heavily in quality control with a significant number of quality control staff actually testing things. In addition to training and inspection they engaged the workforce so they were proud of working for Peugeot and doing a good job. The result was that warranty claims for Peugeot averaged 390 old francs compared to 7500 for an Aronde. This gave low running costs for the owner. For the 403 it was 16.20 francs per km against 23 for a Traction and 34 for a Fregate.
Labour was a large component of car manufacture but increased mechanisation reduced it. In 1948 it took 500 hours to make a 202BH, in 1955 260 hours to make a 203C or 403 and 180 hours to make a 403b in 1959.
 
You’re right Russell,while working at Renault Australia punt rd Richmond branch,starting Feb 1970,we had a run of water leaks in the Renault range mainly,not so much Peugeot,frustrating warranty work,turns out water testing unit had pressure turned down so all was good in their eyes.not as bad as mate at trade school who worked at local Holden dealer in ferntreegully who said remedy for boot leaks in Holden Torana was to drill hole in low point of boot to let water drain out??..jim
 
I don't want to be too hard on Renault, they tried to do a good job and didn't set out to rip buyers off. If you got past the dealers who were very ordinary Renault would go to some trouble to fix things. You're no doubt well aware of some of the stunts dealers would pull assisted by the six month warranty. Renault were assemblers not manufacturers and the line had too many models on it. I think the assembly line made things worse. If they just had the 12 it would have been better. Stories from GMH at Fishermans Bend and Ford were worse. A machinist at the gearbox plant at Fishermans Bend was quite upset when an American manager told them "we're making Holdens not Rolls Royces" and to process the scrap pile . And they did. It was a different time but some of the cars both Renaults and Peugeots went to customers with too many faults. With six months warranty it was so easy to put the buyer off. It worked against getting the volume of sales the 12 needed to make the operation viable but there was a negative public perception of running costs. It's a shame we don't get to go back and do things again properly.
 
I don't want to leave the wrong impression here. The deficiencies at Heidelberg were obvious to those involved in the field but most buyers were well pleased with their cars. Faults were often only minor like the window winders falling off the 12 because the assemblers wouldn't turn the locking tabs. The dealers weren't a great lot but the warranty claims people at Renault like Ian Anson didn't hesitate to authorise complete replacements of faulty parts, never repairs. Noisy camshafts on Ti engines, no worries, new engines. They would take the side of customers against dealers and some dealers lost the agency over poor service. If a car was really bad it would go to Punt Road where they would put it right. When they had the rust problems with electrophoresis the owners were given generous trade ins. Renault was an ethical company. Much better than the firms that replaced them. The Heidelberg period was the best of times for Renault and Peugeot in Australia.
 
I prefer the C and G 404s. Still at the same Heidelberg plant though.
 
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