CX prestige hydraulic clutch

[cx25gtit2]

Hello Shane,

Teds internet page is very informative indeed !

in my T2 there was a diameter difference somewhere in the high pressure connections. don't remember where, but that was an easy fix in my hydraulically experienced garage, so that shouldn't be a problem for you.

the suction line going to the master cylinder comes from a T-connection, which is just interconnected on large LHM return line.
in my Prestige there is a factory return line installed with a T connector. works like a charm! like a hot knife through butter ;-)

in my T2 perhaps the return line that was cut to add the T is slightly smaller in diameter, so not a lot of return flow of LHM. when I press the clutch a few times, it is probably low on LHM, and then pressing the clutch requires more force.... I know this happens, so I am not in a hurry to change this (but may do so). so do use a large return line though ! then it shouldn't be a problem !

I just have this one close by on my T2:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11523694@N05/5251750326/
need more pictures ??

Jim

Thanks,

he must have thought the safety valve was required. I'll probably just stick a 3way junction into the feed line to the front height corrector. If shouldn't matter where it's powered from, so I'll pick a 3.5mm line somewhere nearby. I'll need to find a bleeder for it too (possibly the front brakes on a DS will have an external bleeder I can use, I'll need to check).

Teds pages have a good writeup on it. There is no information in the shop manuals I have here, so I'm surprised the haynes manual covers it!

http://www.tedperkins.com/hydraulic_clutch.htm

You just need the diagram to work out the connections:



1: pressure line from the master cylinder
5: High pressure line from hydraulic system
"Vis de perge" : is the 3.5mm lines that goes to a bleeder nipple i'll need to source
8: Low pressure return.

The master cylinder just has standard connections. suction and discharge. I'll have to figure out how to attach the suction side to the LHM reseviour so that it's always immersed in LHM (the return line connections could possibly be into air inside the reseviour ). Where does the suction line from the master cylinder attach on your CX's ?

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[DoubleChevron]

Hi Guys,

well fitting that clutch is straight forward ...................... Other than finding it's 4.5mm lines not 3.5 ......arrrrrhhhhhhh :disappr: I have a 3.5mm bubble flare tool and heaps of joiners off cars, but nothing for 4.5mm

You just unbolt the cable, drop the bracket off, pull the throwout lever off the clutch and bolt the slave and cast lever in place.

the master bolts up using the same mounting holes as the cable bracket

The slave bolts up to the cable retainers. The bleed screw I was missing, however I found the bleeder from the daravi controller fitted.



Adding the lines was quite problematic. You see I was expecting 3.5mm lines. I do however have quite a few lines I have pulled from cars over the years, so I just used "pre-existing" lengths for the master -> slave. The high pressure connection onto the slave was huge problem. How the hell do I go from 3.5mm to 4.5mm ??? There is not one single 'T' piece/connector anywhere on any car I can find to allow me to do this. In desperation I fitted a brake accumulator "base" from the aussie sold CX (it has a 3.5 and 4.5mm connection).

This mess is *just* to convert from 4.5 to 3.5mm lines ... sigh....

It was a b@sard of a thing to bleed. I ended up plugging line to the master cylinders return, fitting a funnel and holding it up high while I pumped the clutch.

I grabbed the high pressure from the priority valves feed to the rear suspension (that way the clutch has a low priority).

I found the clutch now worked, but was incredibly heavy. A good 50% heavier than the cable clutch ( SWMBO could easily stand on the peddle and not depress it ).

I found there was no fluid at the slaves high pressure line .... The brake accumulator base must have a one way valve in it

Desperation .... my 3.5mm to 4.5mm 'T' piece. Yes that's a 4.5mm line joiner welded to a 3.5mm 'T' piece :crazy: :crazy:

On trying the clutch again .... bugger it, now there's nothing there Then I tried engaging a gear and found the clutch *is* working...... It's just so bloody light, it feels like there is nothing connected to the pedal :banana: :banana:

I just need to run the return lines and tdiy up/contain the added highpressure lines now... Damn that's one light clutch . Now one thing I noticed when I pulled the pedal assembly from the car is .......................... CITROEN ... WHERE ARE MY OVERCENTER SPRINGS :nownow: :nownow: This car was made just after Poogoe took over the Citroen range.... They must have deleted the bloody overcenter springs to save 15cents a car :crazy: Little wonder the clutch is so bloody heavy in the petrol turbo models that have a much heavier pressure plate and no overcenter springs

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[DoubleChevron]

For anyone reading this in the future that's attempting to peform this conversion. Someone has just said "why didn't you tap out the hyraulic 'T' peices to take the larger pipe".

I did try this, I tapped the M8 x 1.25 3.5 mm pipe fitting out to M9 x 1.25 (the 4mm pipe fitting), however the depth wasn't there to take the larger pipe. I doubt you could drill the joiners to a greater depth and keep the correct profile at the bottom of the hole so the hose seal will work. It's this "trashed" 3 way union I then welded the 4.5mm pipe joiner too

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[DoubleChevron]

Hi All,

I tried to cobble a return line for the clutch yesterday. No matter what I did it kept blowing any connections apart when you release the clutch. The reason is it expells the slave cylinder full of LHM each time the clutch is dis-engaged.

I have been chatting to Ted via email. He said the master cylinder is plumbed to the same return line as the slave. It all makes sense now, I couldn't understand how the master cylinder worked when plumbed to the return circuit. You see it needs to always have LHM at it's inlet, so if it needs to suck in LHM, there is some available (otherwise it's sucking air, then the clutch wouldnt' work). This is a typically elegant yet simple solution Citroen have used. By plumbing the master cylinders return into the slaves return, each time you release the clutch a surge of LHM will flood the return lines filling the master cylinders feed line (as it's lower than the reseviour).

I grabbed some fuel line today, I'll need to run a dedicated return line back to the reseviour (to avoid it blowing apart under the quantity of fluid being returned in one "spurt"), I'll 'T' it over the master just below reseviour height. I'm glad I worked that one out, it would have been frustrating if the randomly lost prime in the master -> slave circuit

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[DoubleChevron]

I'm sure people are sick to death of this one coming back to the top of the forum. Just a quick review.

Clutch action ... the throw is now about 2inches, the clutch is nice and progressive. You can depress the pedal to the floor with a couple of fingers.

Basically it's how the car should have always been. the clutch now matches the steering, brakes and suspension for ease of use and effort involved and sensitivity.

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[GreenBlood]

I'm sure people are sick to death of this one coming back to the top of the forum. Just a quick review.

Clutch action ... the throw is now about 2inches, the clutch is nice and progressive. You can depress the pedal to the floor with a couple of fingers.

Basically it's how the car should have always been. the clutch now matches the steering, brakes and suspension for ease of use and effort involved and sensitivity.

seeya,
Shane L.

Not at all Shane, brilliant thread, it's always great to see you work your way through a problem. Sounds like a top result. Only drama you now have will be keeping SWMBO out of the car :wink2:

Cheers
Chris

 

[JohnW]

I'm sure people are sick to death of this one coming back to the top of the forum. Just a quick review.

Clutch action ... the throw is now about 2inches, the clutch is nice and progressive. You can depress the pedal to the floor with a couple of fingers.

Basically it's how the car should have always been. the clutch now matches the steering, brakes and suspension for ease of use and effort involved and sensitivity.

seeya,
Shane L.

Not at all Shane. Another fascinating post, for which many thanks.

Let me know if you ever want to sell the only cool CX with a hydraulic clutch and and .........!!

Cheers

 

[DoubleChevron]

**** OH THE SHAME *****

How can the Mighty CX ever survive the shame of this



































Not only did she not make it home under her own power for the first time in 16years ............................................. A bloody glorified Poogoe with a slugomatic gearbox and stinky motor that doesn't even burn proper petrol dragged her flacid @rse home :disappr: :disappr: :disappr:

I only hope the poor old car can live with the shame without punishing it's mechanic .... A couple of days ago the hydraulic lines that I added started leaking at the 'T' joiner I added.... I just got home, wasted 3litres of LHM.... She limped up onto the ramps and I found it was leaking from one of the pipes .... 1/4 of a turn of the nut and the leak stopped.... Really bloody weird, yes it did feel loose too .. hmmm..... I've never had a leak from a hydraulic union like that before.

you know, I reckon I'm gonna find there is no pipe seal in there... it having fallen out while I was screwing the other two lines on. Why didn't it occur me to check this a couple of days ago ......................... More importantly, why didn't it immediatly leak everywhere rather than staying leak free until I"m out driving I cruised to a halt outside Safeway... I grabbed 4litres of oil and dump into the reseviour. But it pumped out the bottom so fast the car couldn't lift

I now will owe the CCCV a heap of $$$ and there will be no club stock left at my house

seeya
Shane L.

 

[DoubleChevron]

ARRRRhhhhh,

the picture shows it ........ that union on the left .... it's the one I tightened 1/4 turn as it was leaking .... See how far it's screwed in ... There won't be a pipe seal in there If there is, it's certainly no good.,

That's cost about $70 in LHM now

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[CX Series 3]

CX Hydraulic Clutch System - I want one please!

Hello Shane,

I read with hypnotic interest your installation of the CX Hydraulic Clutch. I am in Canada and have finished perhaps one of the most customized CX's ever (?). However, I would love to retrofit the hydraulic clutch system.

Can you or any forum members help me locate the parts for a retrofit as you did? Parts for Citroens are virtually impossible to find in Canada/USA because these cars were not officially imported here.

Regards,

Harry

 

[DoubleChevron]

Hello Shane,

I read with hypnotic interest your installation of the CX Hydraulic Clutch. I am in Canada and have finished perhaps one of the most customized CX's ever (?). However, I would love to retrofit the hydraulic clutch system.

Can you or any forum members help me locate the parts for a retrofit as you did? Parts for Citroens are virtually impossible to find in Canada/USA because these cars were not officially imported here.

Regards,

Harry

There is probably 1/2dozen people I know that have been looking for the clutch parts for several years. Your only real hope of finding a hydraulic clutch is to find someone wrecking a CX prestige with a manual gearbox. The slave cylinder will be the hard bit. The slave cylinder on mine has a leaky boot .... It's highly likely these boots are not available too I'm sure I can cobble something up bootwise when I get sick of it leaking everywhere.

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[CX Series 3]

Thanks for the quick, yet discouraging, reply Shane. It will be all more impossible on this continent.

Plan B is to retrofit a standard master-slave system.

However...

I wonder how difficult it would be to actually recreate the powered slave cylinder? I can machine it on my cnc but getting the tolerances so fine would be an issue.

Wonder if there is any other similar hydraulic component that can be substituted?

That's the problem owning Citroens, you want EVERYTHING to be hydraulically powered!

Regards,

Harry

 

[HennovdM]

I'm not sure if these guys will be willing to post to either Canada our Australia but you can try:
http://www.junkmail.co.za/v-johanne...QYCatQX0512QYRgnQX0001QYAdQXF3140QYEdQX201124

or

http://www.junkmail.co.za/v-johanne...YCatQX0512QYRgnQX0001QYAdQXF43979QYEdQX201121

Henno

 

[DoubleChevron]

I'm not sure if these guys will be willing to post to either Canada our Australia but you can try:
http://www.junkmail.co.za/v-johanne...QYCatQX0512QYRgnQX0001QYAdQXF3140QYEdQX201124

or

http://www.junkmail.co.za/v-johanne...YCatQX0512QYRgnQX0001QYAdQXF43979QYEdQX201121

Henno

Interesting, however those two sound like C-matics .... there a 3spd manual gearbox with a torque converter

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[DoubleChevron]

I just learnt something interesting ..... The clutch slave boot is leaky again..... Last time I tried all of the citroen parts places, none had a clutch slave boot. So this time I googled "citroen cx clutch slave boot" and stumbled across a Maserati Merak website that was explaining to an owner the early LHM merak used a CX prestige hydraulic clutch .......................................... So I then googled that ......... Bingo!

http://www.maseratinet.com/c-530-clutch-hydraulics.aspx

There's still people hunting around for slave cylinders to convert there CX's ....... I bet you could find the slave from a Maserati more easily if you hunted around all the Maserati online parts places.

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[cx25gtit2]

Cool info !
I am quite happy with a retrofitted hydraulic clutch in my GTi T2 !
I was anticipating on what part may go down first, and could be a problem replacing, and figured it would be the boot on the slave cylinder.
On that Maserati site there is 26.25mm slave neck boot (early Merak), a 39mm slave neck boot version (late Merak) and a boot repair kit (last on that list). Which one would work you reckon ??

 

[DoubleChevron]

Cool info !
I am quite happy with a retrofitted hydraulic clutch in my GTi T2 !
I was anticipating on what part may go down first, and could be a problem replacing, and figured it would be the boot on the slave cylinder.
On that Maserati site there is 26.25mm slave neck boot (early Merak), a 39mm slave neck boot version (late Merak) and a boot repair kit (last on that list). Which one would work you reckon ??

I still need to order one it. I'll put my car up on the ramps and measure it's boot over easter. There may well be different sized slaves on the CX too, so I'd suggest measuring the one on your car

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[cx25gtit2]

I will check to see what we have here. A friend of mine will install a set soon. He found some hardware. We'll measure it up before it is installed.
But as far as different sizing on the slave+boot.... probably not. The system was only installed over a 3 year period at most I think. Somewhere '78-'81 or so (perhaps '79-'82). And it had to fit on the gearbox housing, with specific dimensions for the arm to be fitted for clutching. So it feels weird if they used different parts (with different sizing).

I will try to measure it all up, also on the set of my friend whe nwe get to it and will ge tback on this.

If you have info for the exact replacement rubber boot on the slave, do let us know !

regards,
Jim

 

[Sturla]

Here is one such kit, looks complete. I think a DS boot would fit by the way.
https://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_auto/809525773.htm

:wink2:

 

[DoubleChevron]

Here is one such kit, looks complete. I think a DS boot would fit by the way.
https://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_auto/809525773.htm

:wink2:

Well done !!! You found one

the merak boot does fit. It is slightly to small but it stretches out and fits

seeya,
Shane L.