Condensors, I hate them. Replace with original or Other?

So many answers, many Thanks too all.

Well I have put in the old deucellieur Coil. The car starts okay. So i guess the coil is okay.

I tried the condensor from a Datsun 200B for a joke. It worked:). Only Tired it cause a mate had a spare one and I thought I would give it a go. No relation to problem at hand.

Why the condensor. When i rebuild the dizzy a while back the car wouldn't start. New points fixed that, this was about a month or two ago. Then the car wouldn't start a few days ago. I put on an old and to my knowledge stuffed condensor.............. Car starts. This same procedure of whacking in a new condensor has solved many a starting problem. They just seem to burn out, maybe due to the Bosch Coil. Seems that Bosch coil and Bosch Points don't Mix well:)

I am going to get some valeo points tomorrow so should be fine. Hopefully the saga will end:). If it wasn't so expensive to go electronic I would, but from what I have heard So far so good with points.

I always set my gap at about .3-.4. Usually a loose .3. Seems to work:). Everything is a bit old, my take on it at least.

I might try to start the car with out the condensor to see what happens:). Might even try to test the condensors with the multi meter.

I hope that my troubles will help others navigate this dark and treacherous world of Peugeot electronic gremlins. :D hahahah (not quite martyrdom but.........)

Thanks again

James
 
Shobbz:
Why the condensor. When i rebuild the dizzy a while back the car wouldn't start. New points fixed that, this was about a month or two ago. Then the car wouldn't start a few days ago. I put on an old and to my knowledge stuffed condensor.............. Car starts. This same procedure of whacking in a new condensor has solved many a starting problem. They just seem to burn out, maybe due to the Bosch Coil. Seems that Bosch coil and Bosch Points don't Mix well:)
Click to expand...
When you say they seem to "burn out" is there any sign of damage to them? I'm wondering whether the act of actually changing them over, rather than any problem the condensor itself, is the issue. How do the connectors and insulators where the positive low tension wire and the condensor lead connect look? Could something be shorting or making a poor contact there that gets moved whenever you replace the condenser? Are your points "burning out" fast? Do you mean "Bosch points" or "Bosch Condensor" when you say they don't seem to get on with the "Bosch coil".

I am going to get some valeo points tomorrow so should be fine. Hopefully the saga will end:). If it wasn't so expensive to go electronic I would, but from what I have heard So far so good with points.
Click to expand...
Again, do you mean "Valeo points" or a "valeo condensor"

I always set my gap at about .3-.4. Usually a loose .3. Seems to work:). Everything is a bit old, my take on it at least.
Click to expand...
.3 is much too small in my book. Normally the suggestion with old engines is to actually increase the gap a tad, rather than decrease it. I'd be trying Dave's suggestion of a "loose .4"

I hope that my troubles will help others navigate this dark and treacherous world of Peugeot electronic gremlins.
Click to expand...
The strange thing about all this that the basic ducellier disy set-up is a very simple one , tried and proven over many years in various cars from various manufacturers. Its most unusual for it to give much trouble. Getting everything back to spec will probably sort it out, but its not a common set of "gremlins".

Cheers

Rod
 
One small follow up.

One function of the condensor, beyond preventing the coil burning out, is to boost high tension voltage by increasing the speed at which the coil magnetic field collapses, so a condensor failure can lead to problems beyond "burnt points". I wonder if , in your case, there is some other additional cause of "loss" here? What sort of condition is the rest of the system in? High and low tension leads and connectors, plugs, etc?

Cheers

Rod
 
Interesting stuff, Shobbz. I had a problem with burning points, and it turned out that someone had put a a ballast resistor Bosch coil on the car, without the resistor, so the coil probably produced a huge high tension voltage, but wouldn't have lasted. I replaced this with a 'normal' (12V) Echlin and had no more problems - in fact, I now change the points when I think they've been on the car long enough, but they barely pit at all. From my experience the Ducellier ignition is really good. To top this off, the dizzy is over 400,000 km old as far as I know, and the bushes aren't worn (I've had it completely apart). Really good, solid basic engineering design.

Stuey
 
Sorry meant valeo condensor.

I used to have a bosch condensor/points/coil. This caused the condensor to burn out.

I am not sure what could be moved when I take off the condensor. The isolating washers are in place. The condensor is only attached by the screw to the dizzy.

What could be being moved?

Leads are a old, prolly the original ones. Copper core, nice and strong. Cleaned recently. Maybe I should get some bosch replacement ones? hahahahhahah.

Plugs are about 6 months old I guess. Not checked recently, doubt the prob is there but a regap and check cannot hurt. They are NGK btw.

Dizzy/rotor are both less than 6 months old. Points are less than a week old.

I am using a Bosch regulator an RE55. The old Big box one was sadly worn out, not charging, dull headlights. This one seems to do the trick quite nicely. Have seen it being used in other pugs also.

Battery terminals are Brass, and in good nick. Ground point to battery has been recently cleaned. Apart from a strange grounding issue somewhere, all things electrical seem to be okay. The rear demister stopped working about a month ago, but I doubt that it is related.

thanks

James head_ban
 
Well, that all sounds pretty good doesn't it, apart , perhaps, from the questionmark about condensor type. The primary area I was thinking about was the connection of the condensor lead and low tension lead to the dissy, but I seem to remember we've been through that before. The contacts are nice and clean at both ends of the LT lead from the coil to the dissy, and there is no chance its intermittently shorting on something along the way?

Have you tried setting the points with a dwell meter rather than feeler guage?

Cheers

Rod
 
Today I am the owner of 2 yes 2 valeo condensors. The first time i put it on the car wouldn't start. So then i jiggled the wires around where the insulating washers and the car worked. Shall investigate maybe getting a larger washer to ensure that they are not touching.

Deucellieur all round.

I always tune with the feeler gauge first. The the dwell meter to get the gap as close to 57deg as I can. About 56 atm.

Could the vacum advance cog be in the wrong place? This changes the point gap? It is currently a bit forward of where it was before the dizzy rebuild, been moving it around to find the besst spot. Not muh difference so far:)

thanks

James
 
Shobbz:
Today I am the owner of 2 yes 2 valeo condensors. The first time i put it on the car wouldn't start. So then i jiggled the wires around where the insulating washers and the car worked. Shall investigate maybe getting a larger washer to ensure that they are not touching.
Click to expand...
Ah! I reckon you probably have a collection of several perfectly fine condensors now! Should last you about a hundred years if you suffer the same failure rate that I have wink

The main thing , of course, is to make sure that there is no possibility of the connector that goes through the body of the distributor, or anything metal that connects to it, contacting the metal body of the dissy. At the same time, of course, you need to make sure that the leads themselves make a very good connection with the screw threaded connector and its retaining nuts.

Things to especially check include the plastic block with the hole through the middle that provides the primary inulation between the connector and the body of the distributor, and the outer rubber or fibre washer that goes on first before any of the leads or the metal washer and first nut.

Make sure all the "metal on metal" connections are scrupulously clean - a bit of emery paper is good for the lead end connectors , metal washers and nuts. If you have "clip on" connections for the low tension coil to distributor lead put a new connector on both ends of it. Sometimes these develop corrosion internally where the wire joins the connector, and sometimes the clips themselves film over or get slack.

Check too that the insulation along the length of the LT wire from coil to dissy is perfect. They quite often get damaged and can "short out" if they happen to lie in the right position on another bit of engine.

<strong>
Deucellieur all round.

I always tune with the feeler gauge first. The the dwell meter to get the gap as close to 57deg as I can. About 56 atm.
Click to expand...
That sounds fine

<strong>
Could the vacum advance cog be in the wrong place? This changes the point gap? It is currently a bit forward of where it was before the dizzy rebuild, been moving it around to find the besst spot. Not much difference so far:)
Click to expand...
It doesn't really make much difference to performance, James. You need to re-adjust the points every time you move it though. The main thing is to adjust it so that the points are pretty well "centred" on each other.

Cheers

Rod
 
I will leave the vacum cog where it is.

The insulators are in place. One of them is very thin and not very big, I shall get a bigger one, just to make sure.

Might get the sandpaper out and give everything a clean:)

thanks again.

James
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top