Only just got it back from being serviced and it's playing up. Worked ok for a couple of days , go to put it into gear from park , refuses to engage when engine is running in any gear. When engine is turned off, it will slot into gear. Is it a loose wire to solinoid / electro valve?, hoping for a simple fix . Have looked at the Haynes manual but I might as well be reading Chinese.
Cmatic woes.
- Thread starter Sloperlad
- Start date
Did they put the right oil in it? electro-valve playing up generally means you can't select gears, not that you loose drive.
Hi when engine is running it will not go into gear from park position. Was serviced from euroserve in Brisbane who are reputable . Was working when collected beautifully, played up badly. There us slight weeping from solenoid onto the connecting wiring cover. Would the weeping of fluid cause a malfunction?
Oh I read that competely wrong. yes, the electro-valve is playing up. Have a look at the wiring around it, and measure the voltage at the valve itself. What drives it is the switch block ontop of the gearbox. This need to be plugged in (check the wire hasn't come off)
The C-matic is pretty simple. the only real issues usually are wiring issues to the electro-valve.... or the electro-vavle itself. from memory they needed to be supported so they didn't move in there mountings. we used to add a bracket across the bottom. (its a bit hazy, its probably 30years since I looked at one
).Thankyou. Will do.
Firstly, lok to se if the bottom of the electrovalve has fallen off or dropped. Are the wires connected and do you get a strong 12V supply?(Read the safety notes about getting underneath a hydropneumatic Citroen before you do so!)
With the ignition on and engine off, you should be able to move the gear lever as though you are starting to make a gearchange and you will hear the electrovalve be energised. It's controlled by a small contact box on top of the gearbox with make/break contacts inside. Haynes does explain this aspect reasonably well, but if you are unsure, don't try to adjust it.
If the battery voltage is low you may expect a problem. I sometimes had this issue in my CX if I was caught idling too long in traffic with lots of consumers turned on.
With the ignition on and engine off, you should be able to move the gear lever as though you are starting to make a gearchange and you will hear the electrovalve be energised. It's controlled by a small contact box on top of the gearbox with make/break contacts inside. Haynes does explain this aspect reasonably well, but if you are unsure, don't try to adjust it.
If the battery voltage is low you may expect a problem. I sometimes had this issue in my CX if I was caught idling too long in traffic with lots of consumers turned on.
If any of the switch contacts are dirty it would probably cause this issue as well. Try pulling the wire from the switch block and earthing it, you should hear the electro-valve click in/out. if it does, try cleaning all of the switch contacts.
I braced my EV with a U-shaped strap as suggested by Shane. I also replaced the feed wire to the switch block with a heavier gauge wire and a new blade connector. Adjusting the switch block gaps is very important to properly phase the change sequence. It is also extremely important that the gearbox and torque converter are scrupulously clean. Multiple fluid changes are needed to remove accumulated deposits inside the torque converter. Build-up around the clutch peripheral seal inhibits the clutch action during gear changing. Flush with type F fluid. I had to do this 12 times before the fluid would drain out clean. This is because only part of the fluid is changed at any one fluid drain and refill. Also, remove and inspect the filter. New ones are available from CX Basis. Also, see if the magnetic rod is not broken and is clean!
A couple more things to note on a C-matic car.
1) They shouldn’t start in gear. Should only start in park and neuteral. A lot have been modified to allow them to in case of selection problems though. Trying a couple of things will tell you a bit about the selection switch on the top of the gearbox (which energizes the solenoid). With the hydraulics up to pressure (so you have brakes) try starting the car in gear.. if it tries to turn over, it’s likely that the system has been modified or that the switch contacts are closed all the time). If it doesn’t start in gear but does start in neuteral and park, then the switch at the top is doing its job. If it is wired correctly it won’t turn over if the points switch has gone open circuit.
Also on that circuit, it helps to know that the point switch switches negative.
2) The point switch supplies the coil of a relay that switches the solenoid. To locate this relay, switch ignition on, and under the bonnet, unplug the wire from the point switch box and earth it out listening for a relay click. If it’s working electrically you’ll likely also hear the solenoid clicking.
3) as others have said, the solenoid is fussy about getting full battery voltage. CX’s can be a bit of an electrical mess around that battery area, and can be hard to trace. But if you find a discrepancy between the battery and solenoid voltage when it’s on then it pays to sort that… also on that, CX’s had some weird wiring around their voltage regulators where they didn’t always recieve an accurate input to know how much to charge. Good idea to fit a solid state regulator wired correctly to give battery voltage at its terminal.
4) this one is important…. if you need to remove the electro valve from the car don’t be tempted to unbolt it via the 2 bolts that hold it to the valve body. It’s impossible to put back together in the correct order if the spool comes out the bottom. Instead remove the valve body (I think it’s 6 bolts and a hose but it’s been years since I’ve done one). Then set it up on the bench and bolt it back as a complete unit.
1) They shouldn’t start in gear. Should only start in park and neuteral. A lot have been modified to allow them to in case of selection problems though. Trying a couple of things will tell you a bit about the selection switch on the top of the gearbox (which energizes the solenoid). With the hydraulics up to pressure (so you have brakes) try starting the car in gear.. if it tries to turn over, it’s likely that the system has been modified or that the switch contacts are closed all the time). If it doesn’t start in gear but does start in neuteral and park, then the switch at the top is doing its job. If it is wired correctly it won’t turn over if the points switch has gone open circuit.
Also on that circuit, it helps to know that the point switch switches negative.
2) The point switch supplies the coil of a relay that switches the solenoid. To locate this relay, switch ignition on, and under the bonnet, unplug the wire from the point switch box and earth it out listening for a relay click. If it’s working electrically you’ll likely also hear the solenoid clicking.
3) as others have said, the solenoid is fussy about getting full battery voltage. CX’s can be a bit of an electrical mess around that battery area, and can be hard to trace. But if you find a discrepancy between the battery and solenoid voltage when it’s on then it pays to sort that… also on that, CX’s had some weird wiring around their voltage regulators where they didn’t always recieve an accurate input to know how much to charge. Good idea to fit a solid state regulator wired correctly to give battery voltage at its terminal.
4) this one is important…. if you need to remove the electro valve from the car don’t be tempted to unbolt it via the 2 bolts that hold it to the valve body. It’s impossible to put back together in the correct order if the spool comes out the bottom. Instead remove the valve body (I think it’s 6 bolts and a hose but it’s been years since I’ve done one). Then set it up on the bench and bolt it back as a complete unit.
Angru, do you know the correct wiring pattern for a Bosch two-pin solid state regulator? I am still running the original regulator unit!
Would be interesting to know what transmission fluid they put in. As Gerry says type F fluid is the way to go.
When I bought my first CX in 2004 it took some time for the gears to engage, a different problem to what is experienced here. However I called both specialists that had worked on the CX and they both said they put in Dextron ATF.
Lucky there was Aussiefrogs back then and a few members including Alan Smith posted a thread on C-matic fluid. As soon as I drained the Dextron and added the Castrol TQF (Type F), the shuddering and hesitation to go into gear never occurred again. That was the only issue I had with the C-matic, luckily no electrovalve issues, except the current one sometimes the contacts to the solenoid need a bit of a clean after months of sitting in a shed, and needing to bring up the revs to feed in enough current to get into gear.
Still perhaps my favourite transmission coupled to a CX is a sublime driving experience when it's all working as it was designed.
When I bought my first CX in 2004 it took some time for the gears to engage, a different problem to what is experienced here. However I called both specialists that had worked on the CX and they both said they put in Dextron ATF.
Lucky there was Aussiefrogs back then and a few members including Alan Smith posted a thread on C-matic fluid. As soon as I drained the Dextron and added the Castrol TQF (Type F), the shuddering and hesitation to go into gear never occurred again. That was the only issue I had with the C-matic, luckily no electrovalve issues, except the current one sometimes the contacts to the solenoid need a bit of a clean after months of sitting in a shed, and needing to bring up the revs to feed in enough current to get into gear.
Still perhaps my favourite transmission coupled to a CX is a sublime driving experience when it's all working as it was designed.
Interestingly Castrol no longer make Type F transmission fluid.
I tried to buy some recently for the Mustang I have been fixing up on the "It will come in handy one day" thread.
The owner at store I was at said Castrol have just just gone to "multi" oils in their ATF range.
He kindly rang Castrol for me to see which ATF multi oil replaced Type F and the reply was "none of them are compatible" and "it's only old transmissions that used that fluid anyway".
Fortunately Penrite and Valvoline still make Type F at this point in time, but will that last????
If you see any Castrol Type F it will be old stock.
Autobarn still list it on their website, but my local store doesn't have any.
I tried to buy some recently for the Mustang I have been fixing up on the "It will come in handy one day" thread.
The owner at store I was at said Castrol have just just gone to "multi" oils in their ATF range.
He kindly rang Castrol for me to see which ATF multi oil replaced Type F and the reply was "none of them are compatible" and "it's only old transmissions that used that fluid anyway".
Fortunately Penrite and Valvoline still make Type F at this point in time, but will that last????
If you see any Castrol Type F it will be old stock.
Autobarn still list it on their website, but my local store doesn't have any.
It's getting like that with Dex II (which the ZF 4HP18 tranny in my 605 thrives on) - but my local Mobil depot managed to get me a 20 litre drum. Must remember to change the fluid soon and actually use some of the 20 litres!
I might be reading the problem incorrectly but have you tried this fix? aussiefrogs.com/forum/index.php?threads/citroen-c5-2009-difficulty-engaging-gear-shift-on-starting-up.151393/#post-1825919. If correct it is a quick and easy fix with replacement of the solenoid.
Its a Citroen CX with a C-matic gearbox. The C-matic is a 4spd manual gearbox, with 1st gear removed, and a torque converter/pump to perform the clutch actions, but the driver still needs to manually select gears
Needs to be earthed… and the 2 pins d+ to battery voltage with ignition, and DF goes to alternator executor (field)
Many thanks Angru!
Update. The solenoid has died. Have the chaps ay Euroserve in Brisbane trying to find some who rebuilds them, if anyone has a working spare they would like to part with, I would like to purchase to get this car on the road as soon as possible. If no spare solenoids, who out there would reconstruct them?
Kind regards
John.
Kind regards
John.
They’re pretty thin on the ground. Have you tried Steeley from Justcits? You might have to try Chevronics in the UK or Franzsoze in Germany.
I would be very interested to know if they can be repaired/rebuilt (as i have a couple here that are NG) and who can do it.
Cheers
Jim
I would be very interested to know if they can be repaired/rebuilt (as i have a couple here that are NG) and who can do it.
Cheers
Jim
Steeley has nothing. Like chickens teeth now. Will try the other options you mentioned.