Cleon OEM cam profiles

[Bowie]

More cam related hijack,

I spoke to Clive in Melbourne (over email initially, will have to call him back tomorrow), gave him the spiel;

-Chasing 11~:1
-Elec ignition
-Quad 40mm Carbs
-Stock 73x77
-Stock valves with a 3 angle (33mm in 30mm out)
-4 into 1 exhaust to match what ever cam will work
-Expecting power from 5k

And he came back with,


We would recommend our #0121 profile, which has the following:

Lobe Lift: .276"
Advertised Duration: 305°
Duration @ .050": 240°
Phase Angle: 106.75°

If the profile can be ground straight onto your existing cam as it is, it would cost $207.00, however we may need to weld the lobes in order to put this profile onto your cam, which would cost $801.00 (plus postage, if applicable).

Now for those playing at home, that is very similar to the A3 cossworth cam as listed at Tighe.

https://tighecams.com.au/profiles2/ford1600.htm

And that makes sense with what a lot of you have done prior with the standard valve size in these things.

Suppose from here I'll give him a call and work out what stuff to send him, and we will see if the stock cam is suitable before then worrying about the rest of the rocker gear.

I must say, despite inflation over the years that is still a small amount of coin for how it will change the thing, providing you can fuel and fire it I suppose.

 

[potentz]

Clive cam

Bowie,this is the cam i run from clive cams. 104a profile.
Nice cam.i think will work for you.a little hotter at 50 thou lift.it hs a nice profile,similar to the r5 alpine upgade cams that were sold by renault.ie a wider nose on the lobe.
That is if your carbies work as well as 40 dcoes.i cant comment on that as i dont know much about m/c carbies.
Cheers

Also this will suit a 1397 0r 1289 camwithout welding

 

[Bowie]

Cheers Potentz,

And that was ground out of your stock cam without any trouble?

 

[potentz]

Cheers Potentz,

And that was ground out of your stock cam without any trouble?

Affirmative

 

[R8 Dream]

Just picking up this thread again.

I run a 1.4 R5 Alpine (847 block & crossflow head) with 2/40DCOE in my R8 that runs well on a track. It has been on a dyno which gave me Power 106.9HP @ 6300 and Torque of 98.3ft-lb @ 5000. I estimate (with 15%-20% loss) that the HP at the flywheel would be around 125-130HP.

I purchased the car as an unfinished project which had the complete engine rebuilt (in 1996) and understand from the seller at the time that it was being built up for Historic Rallying. I was not able to obtain any further details of the components used etc.

I would like to know what cam the engine is running as I feel that on track I have plenty of torque, but the revs bottom out in top gear around 5300-5500. I am running a 4 speed big box with a quaiffe LSD etc.

I have spoken to Clive Cams and although they are able to check and profile and grind a cam, they can only do it with the cam out of the engine. I am told they have over 3000 cam profiles, so will probably have one that matches mine or one that might suit me better.

I have also been on the CAT CAMS website and see they have an array of cam profiles for the R5 engine ranging from OEM, Street, Sport, Race etc so I would be interested as to where my current cam profile sits and see if there is any possibility to tailor my cam to my particular circumstances where I can.

My question is can one accurately check a cam profile without necessarily having to take the cam out of the engine/car? If so, where (in Melbourne) would one go to get this done? Or would it be easier/cheaper to just take it out (I don't see how this could be)?

Any suggestions would be great.

 

[dacia4x4]

I would think auto Paris (Paul) or alpine affaire (Marty) should be able to attach a degree plate to crank pulley,rocker cover off with correct valve clearances set,and be able to check inlet and exhaust valve opening and closing angles.others may have different ideas on how to check…jim

 

[dacia4x4]

Usually cam profiles are stamped on end of cam,if reground,which would be minimum of timing case removal to inspect gear end of cam for markings,if not on that end then maybe on other end if cam has been reground,if cam is standard not sure if Renault stamp end of r5 alpine cams..jim

 

[COL]

Just picking up this thread again.

I run a 1.4 R5 Alpine (847 block & crossflow head) with 2/40DCOE in my R8 that runs well on a track. It has been on a dyno which gave me Power 106.9HP @ 6300 and Torque of 98.3ft-lb @ 5000. I estimate (with 15%-20% loss) that the HP at the flywheel would be around 125-130HP.

I purchased the car as an unfinished project which had the complete engine rebuilt (in 1996) and understand from the seller at the time that it was being built up for Historic Rallying. I was not able to obtain any further details of the components used etc.

I would like to know what cam the engine is running as I feel that on track I have plenty of torque, but the revs bottom out in top gear around 5300-5500. I am running a 4 speed big box with a quaiffe LSD etc.

I have spoken to Clive Cams and although they are able to check and profile and grind a cam, they can only do it with the cam out of the engine. I am told they have over 3000 cam profiles, so will probably have one that matches mine or one that might suit me better.

I have also been on the CAT CAMS website and see they have an array of cam profiles for the R5 engine ranging from OEM, Street, Sport, Race etc so I would be interested as to where my current cam profile sits and see if there is any possibility to tailor my cam to my particular circumstances where I can.

My question is can one accurately check a cam profile without necessarily having to take the cam out of the engine/car? If so, where (in Melbourne) would one go to get this done? Or would it be easier/cheaper to just take it out (I don't see how this could be)?

Any suggestions would be great.

Yes you can check the profile of the cam without dismantling the engine. You will require a degree wheel and a dial indicator to do it.

You need to set the degree wheel to TDC, there are a couple of ways to do this, either with a dial indicator down the spark plug hole or by using a a solid stop down the spark plug hole and rotating the crank shaft to the stop in either direction and adjusting the degree wheel until the stop in both directions reads the same degrees either side of TDC.

Then you will need remove the push rod so as to set up the dial indicator on say the inlet cam follower on #1 cylinder and then and write down the cam lift for every 5 or 10 degrees of crank rotation. When this is completed do the same for the exhaust cam follower on #1 cylinder.

Its a little fiddly and takes a bit of time but can be done.

When you have the figures you can then put them into a spread sheet and then print out a graph or plot them onto graph paper, lift v's crankshaft degrees.

Hope my explanation helps and is not to confusing.

 

[R8 Dream]

Thanks Jim for your response.

As alpine affaire originally built the engine, I thought I would reach out to Marty to see if he could recall the details of the engine build.

We as luck would have it it was able to recall (with the help I think from some archives and Colin Stark) that the cam used was from a standard R5 Alpine (R1223) profile. But he also recalls that as the block was ex 847 (and not 840) then it would have protruded out the back and thus recalls it had to be machined shorter to fit.

So now I know the cam setup, I have looked on the CAT CAM website and found some other cams that might be a better choice considering the end use.

To the end has anyone had any experience with the 5500226 (sport) or 5500227 (not street - dirt track) profiles?

 

[R8 Dream]

Yes you can check the profile of the cam without dismantling the engine. You will require a degree wheel and a dial indicator to do it.

You need to set the degree wheel to TDC, there are a couple of ways to do this, either with a dial indicator down the spark plug hole or by using a a solid stop down the spark plug hole and rotating the crank shaft to the stop in either direction and adjusting the degree wheel until the stop in both directions reads the same degrees either side of TDC.

Then you will need remove the push rod so as to set up the dial indicator on say the inlet cam follower on #1 cylinder and then and write down the cam lift for every 5 or 10 degrees of crank rotation. When this is completed do the same for the exhaust cam follower on #1 cylinder.

Its a little fiddly and takes a bit of time but can be done.

When you have the figures you can then put them into a spread sheet and then print out a graph or plot them onto graph paper, lift v's crankshaft degrees.

Hope my explanation helps and is not to confusing.

Thanks Col - I just cracked the code with help from Marty of AA.
The STD profile was used.

 

[COL]

Thanks Col - I just cracked the code with help from Marty of AA.
The STD profile was used.

You have the result without all the hard work.