C4 Picasso AdBlue tank

pottsy

pottsy

Citroen Loony & BMC Nutter.
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Having just had this replaced under warranty I thought I'd share some photos of what's inside the old one.

As for trying to find the fault in it, forget it!. Way too complicated by the look of it. That being said, if it was only a worn or slightly clogged pump it could perhaps be addressed.

Anyway, here's what's under the lid. The yellow round thing has a pipe clipped on from the pump. I'm assuming there's a level sensor deeper inside the tank as well.

Incidentally, there's also a removable drain plug at the front end of the tank

Cheers, Pottsy
 

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The drain plug must be for when the AdBlue tank gets filled up with Diesel or Petrol by mistake.

Cheers, Ken
 
pottsy said:
Having just had this replaced under warranty I thought I'd share some photos of what's inside the old one.

As for trying to find the fault in it, forget it!. Way too complicated by the look of it. That being said, if it was only a worn or slightly clogged pump it could perhaps be addressed.

Anyway, here's what's under the lid. The yellow round thing has a pipe clipped on from the pump. I'm assuming there's a level sensor deeper inside the tank as well.

Incidentally, there's also a removable drain plug at the front end of the tank

Cheers, Pottsy
Click to expand...
Greetings and salutations in Eltham land. Do you have the pump from the old tank and if so is it available for sale?
Don
 
Hi Don.
The tank and it's contents (the electronics, not the AdBlue!) are yours.
When are you in Melb next? We could do lunch and a cultural exchange.
Cheers, Pottsy.
 
pottsy said:
Hi Don.
The tank and it's contents (the electronics, not the AdBlue!) are yours.
When are you in Melb next? We could do lunch and a cultural exchange.
Cheers, Pottsy.
Click to expand...
That is something I look forward to very much. You are not far from my daughter’s place in Doncaster, down Fitzsimon’s Road. We had our Citroen Car Club Xmas get together at Westbury last Saturday with a varied collection. No GS’s or BX’s, both my floaty favorites.
Don W.
 
Where is the filler for a Picasso ? Is it behind the fuel filler flap ? At least in our 308 Touring it's in the floor so there's no chance of accidently filling with diesel !

Cheers

Justin
 
Justin.

Same or similar spot to the 308 I assume.

Not sure which floor pan is shared between the Picasso, Grand Picasso, 308 and 3008,but I'm sure someone here will be able to enlighten us.

On Pablo it's in the floor under the right hand 3rd row seat.

Cheers, Pottsy
 
Hi pottsy, I assume yours was still under factory warranty? I had run into a fellow C4GP owner a few months ago who had the adblue issue and had been quoted several thousand to fix it. I thought he was just talking about the need for a top-up. However, 4 days ago the dreaded EML and Urea light combination popped up. A quick search revealed the magnitude of this issue all over the world.

There's a guy in Malaysia who specialises in refurb and replacement of the tanks. Countless UK and European Peugeot/Citroen owners describe the same issue. The pump was clearly never fit for purpose, nor was the design of not making the pump replaceable on its own. I contacted Citroen Australia that evening, gave them my VIN, noted it was a year out of warranty, and asked them to cover it under a goodwill warranty given the "countless reports". and received a phone call the following morning saying to get it diagnosed at Brisbane City Citroen and to get them to contact Citroen Australia regarding the warranty claim.

Mine is a year out of warranty. Before and after the call from Citroen Australia, I phoned around looking for parts and servicing. "Le Mans" mechanics in Milton and in Newstead (Brisbane) refused to even consider replacing the tank - weird for a Euro car mechanic, I think, especially one with a French name. Brisbane City Citroen quoted the part price as over $4,000!!! I can get it sent express delivery from UK (in 3 days) for under $1,300 (including GST), so that is exorbitant price-gouging in my view. I can get it fitted and recoded for around $200 (less than 2 hours to fit).

I am posting this in part to help others and in part to ask if any others have experience having the PSA Adblue Urea Tank fault replaced under a goodwill warranty. Also, if Citroen change their mind on the goodwill warranty, I will likely commence an ACL claim, and would invite any others to join. In my view, this ought to have been a recall, regardless of the age of the vehicle, as the tank/pump assembly was defective prior to about 2018, as I understand. The least Citroen Australia can do is to supply the replacement part. $4000 through their dealer network (almost 1/10th of the new vehicle cost) is absurd.
 
Can you just unplug the thing and forget Adblue exists ? That would certainly be my approach :)
 
JTBrissie said:
.....snip....... In my view, this ought to have been a recall, regardless of the age of the vehicle, as the tank/pump assembly was defective prior to about 2018, as I understand. The least Citroen Australia can do is to supply the replacement part. $4000 through their dealer network (almost 1/10th of the new vehicle cost) is absurd.
Click to expand...
Interesting. What happened in 2018 ? I have a 2018 Allure HDi Touring for example.....

Cheers

Justin
 
Shane, nice as that would be, unfortunately the Powers That Be who demanded Euro 6 emission standards to be followed, also decreed that the car software should monitor the AdBlue process and prevent starting after a certain grace period allowed to refill.

While I'm certain there are clever people out there who could work their way around such firmware instructions (VW anyone :) ) I'm not one of them.

JT. As for replacing the pump itself, yes, probably feasible, but when I saw the amount of electronics in there, on sealed, surface mount circuit boards, I quailed at the thought of doing anything to it! (And I worked 42 years as an electronic repair technician!) These cars have gone beyond the mechanical repair concept to the modular replacement model.

Pablo was just inside the warranty when the dummy was spat and the dealer honoured it despite having to wait for a part to arrive after the expiry date. (Big Props to Regan's)

I suspect that pricing of such parts in Australia reflects the size of the market. Inverse proportion really! :)

'Twas ever thus!

All that being said, anecdotally there certainly seems to be a pattern to the failures and that's disappointing in a brand with such otherwise good credentials.

Cheers, Pottsy
 
pottsy said:
JT. As for replacing the pump itself, yes, probably feasible, but when I saw the amount of electronics in there, on sealed, surface mount circuit boards, I quailed at the thought of doing anything to it! (And I worked 42 years as an electronic repair technician!) These cars have gone beyond the mechanical repair concept to the modular replacement model.

Pablo was just inside the warranty when the dummy was spat and the dealer honoured it despite having to wait for a part to arrive after the expiry date. (Big Props to Regan's)

I suspect that pricing of such parts in Australia reflects the size of the market. Inverse proportion really! :)

'Twas ever thus!

All that being said, anecdotally there certainly seems to be a pattern to the failures and that's disappointing in a brand with such otherwise good credentials.

Cheers, Pottsy
Click to expand...

Yes, I can understand modular replacement. However, $4k is absurd for the module that can be delivered from the UK in a few days for less than a third of that. Fine to increase slightly, but 300% is excessive.

Justin, as I understand from reading forums the parts (pump and electronics) were updated from 2018. The original pump had metal parts that corroded and failed. The original cap wasn't vented which strained the pump so some failed in just a few thousand kms. I don't know what else was updated, but Peugeot/Citroen forums suggest the issue applied to 2014-17/18 PSA BlueHDi vehicles. However, best to do your own survey.

Many have had it replaced months out of warranty so it seems Peugeot/Citroen are generally acknowledging the issue and keeping customers happy. Some did not pursue out of warranty and paid €1000 or £1000 or more to have it fixed. It will likely be my last car from the brand(s) if they don't help out. At least they have been communicative so far.
 
It's a shame we've all lost access to ServiceBox - I'd love to lookup the part and see if the 2018 onwards vehicles list a different part number somewhere.......

Cheers

Justin
 
Just to update: I eventually heard from the dealer (after over 2 weeks). Contrary to what I had been told by Citroen Australia on 20 December, Citroen told the dealer on about 7 January that they were only willing to cover 50% of the parts "cost". Dealer informed me that would result in a total cost of $2,500. So... That's $2,000 off a part they want to charge $4,000 for, when it would only cost $1,300 delivered from the UK. Just a $700 premium then for the part, and $500 for Brisbane Citroen when fitting and coding elsewhere is no more than $250.

In less than 2 weeks, I could have kept use of my vehicle, purchased the part from the UK, fitted myself and had it recoded for around $1,500, before asking for contribution from Citroen. Last Tuesday (after promising a response the previous week) they again said they will not contribute more. So now, in desperate need of a car (having gone without for over a month so far!) I am forced to pay Citroen.

So definitely no more Citroen (or Peugeot or Subaru - all Inchcape) for me. I wanted to be supportive, but cannot risk a company unwilling to take responsibility for its faulty parts. If anyone else has ANY experience with the PSA urea tank/pump issues, please PM me. I intend to pursue Inchcape further.
 
JTBrissie said:
Hi pottsy, I assume yours was still under factory warranty? I had run into a fellow C4GP owner a few months ago who had the adblue issue and had been quoted several thousand to fix it. I thought he was just talking about the need for a top-up. However, 4 days ago the dreaded EML and Urea light combination popped up. A quick search revealed the magnitude of this issue all over the world.

There's a guy in Malaysia who specialises in refurb and replacement of the tanks. Countless UK and European Peugeot/Citroen owners describe the same issue. The pump was clearly never fit for purpose, nor was the design of not making the pump replaceable on its own. I contacted Citroen Australia that evening, gave them my VIN, noted it was a year out of warranty, and asked them to cover it under a goodwill warranty given the "countless reports". and received a phone call the following morning saying to get it diagnosed at Brisbane City Citroen and to get them to contact Citroen Australia regarding the warranty claim.

Mine is a year out of warranty. Before and after the call from Citroen Australia, I phoned around looking for parts and servicing. "Le Mans" mechanics in Milton and in Newstead (Brisbane) refused to even consider replacing the tank - weird for a Euro car mechanic, I think, especially one with a French name. Brisbane City Citroen quoted the part price as over $4,000!!! I can get it sent express delivery from UK (in 3 days) for under $1,300 (including GST), so that is exorbitant price-gouging in my view. I can get it fitted and recoded for around $200 (less than 2 hours to fit).

I am posting this in part to help others and in part to ask if any others have experience having the PSA Adblue Urea Tank fault replaced under a goodwill warranty. Also, if Citroen change their mind on the goodwill warranty, I will likely commence an ACL claim, and would invite any others to join. In my view, this ought to have been a recall, regardless of the age of the vehicle, as the tank/pump assembly was defective prior to about 2018, as I understand. The least Citroen Australia can do is to supply the replacement part. $4000 through their dealer network (almost 1/10th of the new vehicle cost) is absurd.
Click to expand...
JTBrissie said:
Just to update: I eventually heard from the dealer (after over 2 weeks). Contrary to what I had been told by Citroen Australia on 20 December, Citroen told the dealer on about 7 January that they were only willing to cover 50% of the parts "cost". Dealer informed me that would result in a total cost of $2,500. So... That's $2,000 off a part they want to charge $4,000 for, when it would only cost $1,300 delivered from the UK. Just a $700 premium then for the part, and $500 for Brisbane Citroen when fitting and coding elsewhere is no more than $250.

In less than 2 weeks, I could have kept use of my vehicle, purchased the part from the UK, fitted myself and had it recoded for around $1,500, before asking for contribution from Citroen. Last Tuesday (after promising a response the previous week) they again said they will not contribute more. So now, in desperate need of a car (having gone without for over a month so far!) I am forced to pay Citroen.

So definitely no more Citroen (or Peugeot or Subaru - all Inchcape) for me. I wanted to be supportive, but cannot risk a company unwilling to take responsibility for its faulty parts. If anyone else has ANY experience with the PSA urea tank/pump issues, please PM me. I intend to pursue Inchcape further.
Click to expand...
Apparently they can be sourced from Poland through a German parts supplier. In the UK they are coded by dealers quite cheaply. They must be coded by a genuine Diagbox. There are many posts on Frenchcarforum. The tanks are very simple to instal. For further detail please PM me.
Don
 
Hi Don.

Neobrothers in the UK ship the OEM version express to Aus for about GBP640. They increased the price while I was waiting for Citroen to come through on their goodwill promise, so it is now over the $1k FOB and subject to 5% customs, as well as the full customs declaration form and then GST. So the cost would have been about $1200, and is now at least $1300. In any event, I have waited over a month for Inchcape and I am out of time to order, do the repair, and arrange the recode.

I had seen the videos (as I recall, there are only about 12 screws and then you can just use a jack to lift it up while disconnecting the electrics, and it takes less than an hour), and arranged for a local French car specialist to recode cheap enough, hence the max $1500 cost. But Inchcape lied to me, so now I have a $2500 bill. I will now have to pursue Inchcape for my loss under the ACL. I wish I'd just bought the part 5 weeks ago. I'd have had a car the whole time, and been over $1000 better off.
 
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