BX Time - '89 16v project

faulksy

faulksy

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After a chance phone call one evening I'm now half owner of a very solid 1989 GTI 16v. It needs a bit of TLC and seeing as there's very little info out there thought it might be worth starting a thread here. The previous owner was about to send it off for auction/crushing as he didn't think it was worth much or anyone would want it! It's essentially sat still for 5 years as the previous owner had it overheat driving it home the day he bought it and hasn't dared take it anywhere really since.

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Driving it home was an interesting undertaking not least because its years since I've driven a manual.

The good news:
  • It's complete
  • No oil leaks
  • the sunroof doesn't leak (a minor miracle)
  • It drives rather nicely once you can get the revs over 2000
  • No knocks or rattles from the suspension
  • All the electricals seem to function
  • The interior hasn't disintegrated
  • It's a GTI 16V
  • The boot was full of spares

The bad news:
  • It's running way to hot - previous owner had it boil
  • Has zero low end power. Hill starts required some pedal to the metal action and even then it would only run on 3 cylinders till the revs picked up to over 2000prm.
  • LHM leak from around the driver's front strut
  • The speedo doesn't work
  • It's very hard to start
  • The bumpers and body work have a few issues
  • Someone has bodged chunks of the electrical system
  • There are a few hoses in the engine bay that have been cut and plugged
  • I can't work out what some disconnected electrical connectors are for

Let the fun times begin!
 
Looks like its pretty good for nix! Steering wheel seats etc not too sun damaged
 
running way too hot could be ,the cooling system has to be bled .possibly a couple times to get all the air out ,check for vacuum leaks air being sucked in after the air flow meter ,cracks in plastic etc [hoses plugged in engine bay ]
 
Hoses all look fine but the injectors are surprising loose in their mounts so new o-rings are going in. After the drive home, the nice green coolant has turned a muddy brown so a lot of sludge has been flushed out of somewhere. I'll take the rad off and give it a flush along with the block.

There's no sun damage to any of the interior. Must have spent all it's life undercover.
 
Wow Faulksy,
We have three complete BX 16V in the Family, two on historic reg and one resting waiting for a new fuel pump and injector clean. While you have the injectors out, get them ultrasonically cleaned, flow rates and spray patterns checked. They have probably had dud fuel put through them and are not at their best and this can affect starting. You will need to get a new cambelt on there pretty quickly too as all sorts of nasties can happen to the valves if they break and they were supposed to be changed every 4 years.

The cooling system is interesting. The heater has a tap that closes it off when not in use. The thermostat starts off when cold flowing coolant through a bypass tube and back into the bottom of the engine and as it opens, it shuts off this route and sends coolant, through the radiator circuit. So to keep them cool, the thermostat has to be spot on and the radiator needs to have low flow resistance. It is possible that the black plastic housings that the main radiator hoses attach to are very fragile.

There is a Haynes manual around on the www for the BX with pdfs for most of the chapters. I have the files if you can't find them out there. Also there is good info in some of the Haynes Chapter 13 supplement in earlier versions of the manual that got left out of the Electronic Version including a diagram of the cooling system. Just let me know what you need.

Cheers Ken
 
The heater bypass circuit is a pain in Australia conditions and just another possibility of a leak. I have a good fix to remove this unnecessary feature. PM or email me if you're interested.

I'd suggest it has a blown head gasket, if it's over heating AND has no bottom end power. I have the XU9J4 factory rebuild manual should you need it.
 
Fabulous car. Looks like its in good nick. My 16v is the only car I regret selling
 
Think i've got the workshop manual situation covered courtesy of CCCV but thanks for the offers guys.

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It looks like the air intake hose between the radiator duct and air filter is missing. Does anyone have a photo of what it looks like or better yet a spare one?

Head gasket is possible but it's not loosing coolant or oil and the engine oil looks brand new.
 
I have a Haynes manual if you want, no go to me as I regret selling my 16V as well.
 
We just had the radiator from the 16V renovated ($250) it had a lot of sludge blocking it. An old sticker suggested it had been cleaned/replaced at least once before. Whatever is causing overheating, suggest also renovating the radiator.
Looks like you have a solid valver to get on the road.
They are a fun car to drive, especially along the Black Spur or anywhere in the Vic Alps. With a Clio 3 Cup Trophee and an Evo X at home, I would place the valver right up there perfomance/handling wise with the added advantage of a much comfier ride.
 
It looks like the air intake hose between the radiator duct and air filter is missing. Does anyone have a photo of what it looks like or better yet a spare one?
This is what it looks like.
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Thought I'd tackle something easy and see why the speedo wasn't working. Little did I know this required dismantling half the dashboard! The cowling around the steering column had to come off, along with the wheel as it turned out. The clock and electric mirror switch also had to be prised out to gain access to the instrument cluster retaining wingnuts.

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The clock was playing up so had to come out anyway. The mirror switches though decided to fly apart spilling springs and ball bearings all over the footwell.

Pulling the instruments out revealed the culprit, not only has the plastic end come off the speedo cable but the cable itself has snapped.

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It looks like the cable has to make some fairly sharp 90deg bends to get to the speedo which doesn't seem right. Is it normal for it to run inside the dashboard from somewhere behind the glovebox? You can see it through the hole the clock lives in.
 
Yes, that is where the cable goes and that's why the speedo needle wobbles around at low speeds. It would be best use some spray grease down the cable before you get it back together.

If the clock display is missing some segments, you are probably best to try to find one that is still ok. Once you start dismantling those LCD displays, they usually only get worse. I have pulled one apart to use the LCD rubber connectors on my CX display.

I might be able to find a pre-air cleaner air duct from you from our collection.

Are you going to do a compression test?

Cheers, Ken
 
Seems like all the segments are working but the display changes brightness as the cables are flexed. I’m thinking a broken wire or dirty connector is all it is. I’ll have a look this arvo and report back.

Good thought about oiling the cable. Has anyone tried re-routing it to take the sharp bends out?

Going to have to wait a while for a compression test as I’m more than 5km from most of my tools.
 
Wow ... the plastic is intact. Years ago (probably 20years ago) when we had a BX .... I remember my hand going straight through the top of the binnacle. Every bit of plastic touched ... just turned to dust :(
 
I’ve been told the bx can overheat simply because it has t been bled which is an unusual procedure in my experience and probably why someone may have missed it. Suggest a flush and bleed before you spend any money
 
Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'll look into flushing the system. One reason for the warm running was that the cooling fans were not working. The fans should spin up at about 86deg but even with the temp gauge needle hovering at 90 they weren't running. Turning on the A/C proved that the fans actually worked but were not being triggered by the thermo switch as they should be. The wiring diagram took a bit of figuring out and neither the parts book or workshop manual show you where each of the relays is located.
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Turns out they are scattered all over the car. Relay 774 is the far left one in the fuse box under the glovebox. Not sure what's going on with fuse 2 on the left, that's how the car came.
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Relay 773 is the bottom right one in the scuttle
Relay 772 is the top right in the scuttle
Relay 733 for the A/C is somewhere in the block of relays in the scuttle, someone has bodged an extra fan relay in there as well.
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The thermo switch 850 is screwed into the outlet pipe of the radiator.
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Wiring for the fans is shoved in behind the front bumper so out with the headlights and air deflector. Everything checked out which was a good start. Ignore the crack in the bumper, that's a project for another day.
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Connecting the left pin of the thermo switch connector to the bottom pin should get the fans running in the slow speed. In this case nothing happened.
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A check with the multimeter showed power was getting to the fans via relay 774 and the fan ground path was fine. I pulled relays 772 and 773 out of their connectors to check and clean the wiring. Thinking 772 may be dead it was swapped with 773 and the fans started working with the thermo switch connector bridged. To get the fast speed, leave the left pin of the thermo switch connecter bridge and add a second bridge to the right pin. A relay clicked somewhere and both fans spun up to full speed. Everything was reconnected and the engine run up to temperature, sure enough just as the needle crept past 80deg the fans spun up so that's one problem solved. Amazing what problems are caused by dirty connectors.

Max has overhauled the fuel rail replacing the injector seals and orings which has made a massive difference. The car now starts first turn of the key without having to pump the accelerator or crank it for 10 min.
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the combination of the three relays (772, 773 and 774) either puts the fans in series (low speed) or parallel (high speed).
 
That's my understanding Peter. relay 774 is just a power feed via fuse 4. 773 by default runs the fans in series for the slow speed when the first stage of the thermo switch closes.

When the second stage of the thermo switch closes at about 90deg, 773 connects fan 1 direct to ground and energises 772 to feed direct 12v to fan 2.

Something else is wrong on this car in that with all the relays in place, grounding both sides of the thermo switch for high speed causes the LH fan to spin up and the RH fan to stop. With relay 772 disconnected it all works as it should. I'm thinking it's something to do with the extra relay added.
 
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