Broken return line on front strut on series 2 , C5,

C

citroenut

Active member
VIP Paid Subscriber
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
733
Location
Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
My service mechanic here in Coffs Harbour just informed me that a return line off a front strut is leaking. He is talking about it being attached to a metal fitting which is not repairable ???? Does this sound logical, & if so what is the solution apart from strut replacement please ?
Richard
 
Same leakback hose as for Xantia and XM. It doesn't care whether it carries LHM or LDS. You can buy the new clip and hose or you can cut off the band of the clip and hold the rubber pad in place with a regular hose clip, not too tight. The clips often do not hold again once they've been released. It's low pressure, so any flexible hose will do as a repair if you don't have the new one. All C6 and (non-coil spring) C5 X7 (08>) doesn't have the leakback hose, so a leaking strut means replacing it on the later models.
 
Typically that return line breaks towards the top, just as it disappears behind the wheel arch liner. IF the fitting at the lower end is intact
( and as stated above it is just secured using a strap like a hose clip ) just rejoin the two broken bits of the return line. I used small diameter metal pipe and a bit of small internal diameter fuel line. It is a low pressure return line that does little more than contain drips and seepage .. which as David stated above is a system not fitted to later C5s.

Here is a clip showing the top end repair. Easy .. even the lower one is simple.


Here's one I just found on Ebay.

www.ebay.com.au

Front Suspension Leg Leak Off Hose Pipe & Clip for Citroen C5 XM Xantia 95050399 | eBay

Front Suspension Leg Leak Off Hose Pipe & Clip for Citroen C5 XM Xantia 95050399.
www.ebay.com.au
 
I've done the flexible cable repair with brass barbs as hose cracked at top end and didn't need to remove from base. I may have some additional hose left over let me check the garage. Pirtek had a suitable internal hose size that wouldn't deteriorate with hydraulic fluid.
 
David S said:
Same leakback hose as for Xantia and XM. It doesn't care whether it carries LHM or LDS. You can buy the new clip and hose or you can cut off the band of the clip and hold the rubber pad in place with a regular hose clip, not too tight. The clips often do not hold again once they've been released. It's low pressure, so any flexible hose will do as a repair if you don't have the new one. All C6 and (non-coil spring) C5 X7 (08>) doesn't have the leakback hose, so a leaking strut means replacing it on the later models.
Click to expand...
thanks for yr reply David.
I gather from my discussion with the mechanic that it is the metal line off the strut that has broken ! Ouch !!!! Until the video from Fritzulhund I had never seen this arrangement. Should this be repairable ? Suggestions please !
Richard
 
dimistyle said:
I've done the flexible cable repair with brass barbs as hose cracked at top end and didn't need to remove from base. I may have some additional hose left over let me check the garage. Pirtek had a suitable internal hose size that wouldn't deteriorate with hydraulic fluid.
Click to expand...
Thanks Dimistyle , for your offer, but i gather that with mine it is the metal pipe off the strut that has broken. In the past when I have had to repair lines I have used that yellow hose [ forgotten it's name } that handles most fuels & oils.
Richard
 
Get him to send a photo and maybe VIN as well the replacement hose is the same item as above, I've pulled 2 from a S1 as spares, strut end still usable
 
dimistyle said:
Get him to send a photo and maybe VIN as well the replacement hose is the same item as above, I've pulled 2 from a S1 as spares, strut end still usable
Click to expand...
Is the metal pipe a removable part from the strut ? If so how is it removed & rebuilt or is it available as a part ?
Thanks,
Richard
 
Richard, I'm not quite sure where your problem is, but I guess it's the strut supply pipe. The struts would only have the supply pipe (LDS flows in & out via this) that screws into (B below) and a rubber leakback hose (6) that is not faulty. The mount B is flexible, but if it's failing than the supply pipe might be flexing too much and have a fatigue failure. Sleeving and brazing might work, but its best to replace.

The leakback hose is not really a 'return' but just meant to manage LDS passing the cylinder seal. Same as the low pressure leakback lines in a DS, CX Xantias etc..

1712281061514.png



Does it have a pipe coming from the strut that's 10mm dia or the skinny lines as seen in older LHM cars like CX? 10mm lines means Hydractive 3+ with the extra sphere in the middle.

Here is the typical supply piping for H3+ (actual Hydractive). 10mm dia and a mix of steel and rubber hoses. Replacing #3 (RHS) is a major job as the subframe needs to be dropped.

1712280425664.png


... and for H3 (Non-Hydractive). These are just the same sort of lines as in DS through Xantia and could be easily brazed.

1712280683454.png
 
Front suspension leakback piping ...

Remember the suspension pump (BHI) incorporates valves to release the LDS under pressure in the suspension when commanded to by the ECU on top of the BHI, which uses the height sensor signal as an input. LDS in the leakback is not under pressure as it's not the return path in a C5 as you might be thinking if you are comparing this to a return pipe from a mechnical height corrector in a DS or Xantia.

The rubber leakback hoses #6 in the first diagram above connect to these. If any of the steel pipes shown below are damaged all you would have to do is repair them so they won't leak as there is no pressure involved. Cut, slide some rubber into the joint and clamp - problem solved at almost no cost. Access is likely not easy anyway and the pipes are NLA and Citroen can't supply any of them.

1712285051412.png
 
Last edited:
David S said:
Richard, I'm not quite sure where your problem is, but I guess it's the strut supply pipe. The struts would only have the supply pipe (LDS flows in & out via this) that screws into (B below) and a rubber leakback hose (6) that is not faulty. The mount B is flexible, but if it's failing than the supply pipe might be flexing too much and have a fatigue failure. Sleeving and brazing might work, but its best to replace.

The leakback hose is not really a 'return' but just meant to manage LDS passing the cylinder seal. Same as the low pressure leakback lines in a DS, CX Xantias etc..

View attachment 239472


Does it have a pipe coming from the strut that's 10mm dia or the skinny lines as seen in older LHM cars like CX? 10mm lines means Hydractive 3+ with the extra sphere in the middle.

Here is the typical supply piping for H3+ (actual Hydractive). 10mm dia and a mix of steel and rubber hoses. Replacing #3 (RHS) is a major job as the subframe needs to be dropped.

View attachment 239463

... and for H3 (Non-Hydractive). These are just the same sort of lines as in DS through Xantia and could be easily brazed.

View attachment 239466
Click to expand...
David, Ian Steele of Just Cits in Maleny has an arrangement with a local pipe supply dude to replace the pesky "bonded" steel and synthetic pipe ( I assume labelled number 3 ) without actual removal of the drippy part via the dropped subframe..... IIRC it is performed from two directions and ( above and below ) and the two parts are reassembled with a screwed fitting. He did mine ( a Hydractive 3+ ) circa 3 years ago. Still a PITA to do he states.
 
And this is when 1 clear photo would easily solve what the mechanic would need to do, no great cost and no re-inventing the wheel, but the mechanic sees Citroen badge and is lost for answers as the item can't be purchased from Repco.... hopefully we're all wrong and the mechanic has fix the issue 🤞
 
Indeed. Richard's C5 is a non-Hydractive facelift version, so has the skinny piping with the big coils to allow movement of the front struts. The fault appears to be with the hard tubing that the leakback rubber hoses connect to. How that breaks I've no idea.
Having a fix for in-situ repair of the hose assembly on the H3+ versions can save a lot. I know some others have gone that route too Mr Fritz. The assembly is NLA (NFP=No Longer Supplied) so repair is the only option anyhow. The simpler non-Hydractive versions of the C5 never develop that issue. The ride is probably a bit softer than H3+ versions too.
 
David S said:
Indeed. Richard's C5 is a non-Hydractive facelift version, so has the skinny piping with the big coils to allow movement of the front struts. The fault appears to be with the hard tubing that the leakback rubber hoses connect to. How that breaks I've no idea.
Having a fix for in-situ repair of the hose assembly on the H3+ versions can save a lot. I know some others have gone that route too Mr Fritz. The assembly is NLA (NFP=No Longer Supplied) so repair is the only option anyhow. The simpler non-Hydractive versions of the C5 never develop that issue. The ride is probably a bit softer than H3+ versions too.
Click to expand...
I have to agree with the last sentence. The hydractive experience is frankly not worth the complexity .. ditto the Activa system too probably. Great in theory but long term more problem than benefit. My addiction to the hydro suspension is FOR the softness and self levelling ... while extremely clever, the real world experience shows Hydractive ( me at least ) is not necessary. Millions of pre Hydractive vehicles gave good service lives without the drama ... Half of the dramas concern the Hydractive stiffness sphere location. Expedient at factory assembly, but horrific further down the track. I CAN detect when the front lowers itself, but road conditions being what they are how necessary is it. The H+ likes to go into hard mode when the vehicle is "pressed" anyway.
 
Compared with my Xantia Turbo that this basic petrol,5 speed C5 replaced, the C5 is very disappointing ,in both ride & flexible
power delivery. The instrument legibility is a disaster, radio controls not much better. However , the air conditioning is superb ,
the seats & driving position too. Let's hopeI I haven't upset the C5 gods ! :unsure:
 
citroenut said:
Compared with my Xantia Turbo that this basic petrol,5 speed C5 replaced, the C5 is very disappointing ,in both ride & flexible
power delivery. The instrument legibility is a disaster, radio controls not much better. However , the air conditioning is superb ,
the seats & driving position too. Let's hopeI I haven't upset the C5 gods ! :unsure:
Click to expand...
So, was a bog standard Xantia the best all time Citroen, with the best balance between complexity, comfort, build quality and reliability. Might just be...
 
No, on a standard non-hydractive Xantia, you only had to lose a little pressure in the corner spheres of the rear suspension and the rear started to get really firm. The front spheres with multilayer spheres retained their pressure well which just excentuates this issue. The best solution to this is to get some non hydractive multilayer spheres from a C5 which calms the rear suspension down very nicely.

Cheers, Ken
 
Which suspension setup you prefer will depend on your usage. The non-hydractive Xantia is soft and comfortable for city driving at low speeds or where cornering demands are low. My situation is living in country Tasmania with my most common drive involving a narrow mountain pass that has been used as a stage of the Targa Tasmania most years. A good way to scare yourself is to be used to driving a hydractive Xantia and then jump in a non-hydractive and have everything feel so familiar until the first decent bend. Not a pleasant experience, and hopefully nothing was coming the other way.

The hydractive does ride a little firmer but provides a better balance of ride and handling for more demanding driving. The Activa pushes this a notch further. The ride is very similar to the hydractive but the handling is out of this world. It just eats of the mountain passes seemly without any effort or risk. One of my sons borrowed my Activa to take a couple of friends up to Cradle Mountain and his comment was that the normal rules of driving just don't seem to apply to the Activa.

A series 1 C5 is more like steering a barge than driving a car. The series 2 is quite a bit better, but I'd still choose a non-hydractive Xantia over a hydractive C5 II like our V6 Exclusive. I haven't driven the C5 X7s enough to be able to comment and where they stand.

The Xantia turbo was a great machine in my opinion - lovely engine and easy to change timing belts.

These are my opinions only - but I do own and drive all these cars.

Kim Howe
 
Kim, Thanks for the "horses for courses" reminder. Having grown up driving "corners on the door handles" D models
( of many variations ), we "early adopters" became used to the non terrain following characteristics, and learned to love them.
Times have changed, along with traffic conditions and congestion. Modern practices in mainstream design leave me unimpressed. Squat low profile tyres prime among the so called improvements.
One could argue that a modern AMI is also a response to modern urban cramped lifestyles.
Equally ultra fashionable is the modern trend for dark uninspiring low visibility colours ( charcoal grey being a pet hate ) and black ( huge heat sink ) unyielding interiors. OH for a white DS Pallas BVH with light grey leather, with a modern air con, no infotainment screen and an empty country road to use it on ....
Your point is taken.
Such a pity that the Hydro years are gone, never to return except in super exotic machinery, and one US made EV truck.

I would like one of these.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top