Bringing a 404 back from the brink

luthier

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Fellow Frogger
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Northern NSW
By chance, out of the blue , I was offered a 404 resto project.
Having just lost a 505 to an engine fire I decided I'd consider it.
It was duly delivered and I have since been tinkering and exploring the project and gradually forming a plan of attack and a list of requirements.
The body is essentially straight with rust issues. Both bumpers are a bit bent, not very badly but probably enough for replacement.
The seats need redoing and the carpet is gone. It's quite wet inside due to being out in the weather for a year or so with leaking back and front windscreens.
Clutch and brake pedals went to the floor and initially when a battery was connected there was no sign of life except for one dash light which then went out.
But there was paperwork to indicate that the engine was fully rebuilt in 1995 and then only used for about 2 years after that. The oil is clean, it has good compression, plugs were in too tight without antiseize but luckily nothing stripped and that situation is now rectified. But they showed that it was running well before it was parked.
Fuel was not getting from the tank and I suspected the pump but it turned out to be both the pump and a blocked pipe inside the tank from the pickup.
I managed to clear that by pushing a heavy gauge guitar string through which allowed fuel to be drawn with a known good pump.
I fitted a battery and used a remote connection to activate the starter. That turns the engine over nicely so I have proven a few things there, but still not investigated ignition until the tank is cleaned.
Then I managed to get the clutch going by removing and cleaning the clutch master and then bleeding it.
Meanwhile the brake pedal has come up after a bit of pumping and I plan to bleed new fluid through it before a thorough check .
I removed the fuel tank while sorting it out and am about to mount it on a cement mixer with chains or bolts or gravel inside, to actively clean the inside as it is terribly dirty.
So I've gone around the car and taken photos so you can see some of the work that will need to be done before we get to paint.
I want to get it running first so I can evaluate whether it's going to be worth doing. I'm happy to fix everything I've seen given that it runs and has a functioning drive train. If not this thread will be shortlived and I will part the car out or sell it to someone with more enthusiasm than me.
I'm pretty optimistic and excited though , as I loved the 404's I have owned and regretted getting rid of the last one which was a very similar model to this one. It's late 1969 with disc brakes and is Maroon. Same model.
Rust will be ground out and a choice of bogging, brazing or welding will be taken depending on severity, position and structural integrity.
Both screens will have to come out and it may be necessary to remove the hood lining though that is acceptable if not perfect.
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Actually the car colour is more an on trend "Shabby Chique Marron"
Much more French like
 
I strongly suspect you were jacking the right rear yet the car was not responding.........I have had a similar experience......

May I say good luck, should keep you entertained.
 
Time would be better spent in looking for a better one. Even when welded you need to find a RWC person to OK it.
 
Dan, those bumpers will probably straighten , using a press and timber to prevent bruising
 
I guess rust is relative really. If that was an XA/B/C Falcon coupe it would be a peach.🤷‍♂️
 
Once you start digging there will be a LOT more rust everywhere as I am sure you know. Big job ahead there but doable if your welding is up to scratch. Good luck
 
Today I got a nice new battery and filled the fuel tank with oxalic acid. I left the seized up sender in there for most of the day and then tonight I pulled it out and managed to move it . Then I gave it a bit of lanox and connected it to the wire and by Gum it works.
So do the dash lights and the radio lights up. The wipers go and so does the heater.
The starter turns over on the button so I have wasted money buying a new ignition switch.
 
I can't get over how similar the Mk2 A55 Austin's and the 404s are. Take away the extra chrome and two tone paint and Pininfarina could be accused of doing a 2 for1 deal.😉
 

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Greenpeace.
Comparison between the Farina BMC's and the 404, yes. The production figures have the Austin's etc in the thousands. The 404 in the millions !

Sad example of your 404. Rust spots indicate further points. Have a good look at the jacking points. Buttress panels. Plenum chamber under the grille in front of the windscreen. Radiator support cross member. Front chassis members that support the X member/ suspension etc. Lower door sills [2] and rust behind in main chassis, a wad of foam was put in here by the factory !!
Even the valve holes in the wheels can rust precluding the fitting of tubeless tyres.

At my time of life I would walk away. But others have tackled worse.
Good Luck.
 
Greenpeace.
Comparison between the Farina BMC's and the 404, yes. The production figures have the Austin's etc in the thousands. The 404 in the millions !
I posted the picture of the A55 MK2 as it was a car I owned.
Just between the Austin A55 MK2 and the subsequent 1.6L Austin A60 they produced over 400,000 units.
Remember BMC were the king of "badge engineering" so the same Farina body was also sold badged as Morris, MG, Riley and Wolesley.
The body was also manufactured in Australia as a 6 cylinder Freeway and Wolesley 24/80.
In Argentina as the Siam and there's probably others I'm not aware of.
I think the Pommie large Farina body production probably snuck into 7 figures worldwide.

Just as an aside I sprayed the "rust" on the one in the photo. It had zero rust anywhere in the car. Just lucky though.🤷‍♂️
 
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sounds like you are not to far from getting it running ,once you have driven it down the road even if you have to use the hand brake to stop it ,you will be convinced that the rest is not all that challenging ,mine has that hole in the floor under the clutch pedal ,but is a bit miss shappen with rust. its handy for pouring some old deisel oil down to soak the bottom of the chassis rail that runs front to back there ,i like it ,jacking points and radiator support are common problems, and rust in the plenum can be challenging ,floors look good and i cant see too much that is structural ,get it running and enjoy it ,
 
No rust in the plenums, or across between them, they drain as they should and are in good condition, but there are a couple of small holes behind them just below the windscreen which I will happily bog.
The engine bay looks to be unrusted.
The radiator cross member was plated before and needs doing again. The jacking points need some work. I think heavy plates will need to be welded on there.
The lower sections of the doors all need work and the sills are bubbled so will see what's under them.
Got the fuel tank clean today. Soaked with oxalic acid then sprayed enthusiastically with 4000psi gurney till water came out clean.
Managed to see the gauze pickup and that should be well cleaned now, so after a drying job I'll fix it back in and try for a startup.
Need to check out the gear linkages as it seems like one may be off. It's a bit weird.
Brakes and clutch now operational. So if it starts I'll go down my driveway and back to see how it works.
 
For the radiator cross member 50mm square gal. fence post fits perfectly. Just cut out what is left of the bottom of the cross member and slot it in. Bolt It through the chassis rail on each side and paint with a bit of bitumen paint. Cheap,easy and strong. Perfect place to jack the front up without depending on the original jacking points. Who hasn't had a 404 creak,groan and move before the jacking points expire?
 
By chance, out of the blue , I was offered a 404 resto project.
Having just lost a 505 to an engine fire I decided I'd consider it.
It was duly delivered and I have since been tinkering and exploring the project and gradually forming a plan of attack and a list of requirements.
The body is essentially straight with rust issues. Both bumpers are a bit bent, not very badly but probably enough for replacement.
The seats need redoing and the carpet is gone. It's quite wet inside due to being out in the weather for a year or so with leaking back and front windscreens.
Clutch and brake pedals went to the floor and initially when a battery was connected there was no sign of life except for one dash light which then went out.
But there was paperwork to indicate that the engine was fully rebuilt in 1995 and then only used for about 2 years after that. The oil is clean, it has good compression, plugs were in too tight without antiseize but luckily nothing stripped and that situation is now rectified. But they showed that it was running well before it was parked.
Fuel was not getting from the tank and I suspected the pump but it turned out to be both the pump and a blocked pipe inside the tank from the pickup.
I managed to clear that by pushing a heavy gauge guitar string through which allowed fuel to be drawn with a known good pump.
I fitted a battery and used a remote connection to activate the starter. That turns the engine over nicely so I have proven a few things there, but still not investigated ignition until the tank is cleaned.
Then I managed to get the clutch going by removing and cleaning the clutch master and then bleeding it.
Meanwhile the brake pedal has come up after a bit of pumping and I plan to bleed new fluid through it before a thorough check .
I removed the fuel tank while sorting it out and am about to mount it on a cement mixer with chains or bolts or gravel inside, to actively clean the inside as it is terribly dirty.
So I've gone around the car and taken photos so you can see some of the work that will need to be done before we get to paint.
I want to get it running first so I can evaluate whether it's going to be worth doing. I'm happy to fix everything I've seen given that it runs and has a functioning drive train. If not this thread will be shortlived and I will part the car out or sell it to someone with more enthusiasm than me.
I'm pretty optimistic and excited though , as I loved the 404's I have owned and regretted getting rid of the last one which was a very similar model to this one. It's late 1969 with disc brakes and is Maroon. Same model.
Rust will be ground out and a choice of bogging, brazing or welding will be taken depending on severity, position and structural integrity.
Both screens will have to come out and it may be necessary to remove the hood lining though that is acceptable if not perfect.
My DS I bought a year or so ago was someones half done, off the road for decades abandoned project. It had lived high up on on a hoist in an old shed for the past 10 years or so. It has the normal Citroen rust issues, however nothing visible (with the boot and doors closed) and nothing structural. I just treated it all with rust convertor, doused it with Tectyl 506 and left it be. Like your Peugeot the body is very straiģht, the only thing was the PO had cut several large holes in the boot lid (rust) and all the underlying support structure had rusted away. I patched the holes and made some bracing for underneath to support the lock and handle then painted it to blend in with the rest of the car. I was fortunate the seats were presentable but I did have to make door trims and a parcel shelf for it. Lots of little mechanical and electrical gremlins, but more time than money. The radiator was blocked solid and it needed a set of tyres.

I bought it to enjoy, and figured if I was to try and fully restore it, it would either be in bits for years or, I would end up like the previous owners and leave it languishing gathering dust in the bowels of the shed.😴

It won't win any shows, but I drive it regularly and it never fails to start a conversation wherever I pull over.
Even if the conversation does sometimes start off with "that's an old Renault isn't it"?😉

I reckon just do what's absolutely necessary and have some fun with it.🤷‍♂️
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My DS I bought a year or so ago was someones half done, off the road for decades abandoned projec
....
It won't win any shows, but I drive it regularly and it never fails to start a conversation wherever I pull over.
Even if the conversation does sometimes start off with "that's an old Renault isn't it"?😉

I reckon just do what's absolutely necessary and have some fun with it.🤷‍♂️

:ROFLMAO:I received that exact comment recently from a friend who saw my XM through a window !
:mallet:
 
My DS I bought a year or so ago was someones half done, off the road for decades abandoned project. It had lived high up on on a hoist in an old shed for the past 10 years or so. It has the normal Citroen rust issues, however nothing visible (with the boot and doors closed) and nothing structural. I just treated it all with rust convertor, doused it with Tectyl 506 and left it be. Like your Peugeot the body is very straiģht, the only thing was the PO had cut several large holes in the boot lid (rust) and all the underlying support structure had rusted away. I patched the holes and made some bracing for underneath to support the lock and handle then painted it to blend in with the rest of the car. I was fortunate the seats were presentable but I did have to make door trims and a parcel shelf for it. Lots of little mechanical and electrical gremlins, but more time than money. The radiator was blocked solid and it needed a set of tyres.

I bought it to enjoy, and figured if I was to try and fully restore it, it would either be in bits for years or, I would end up like the previous owners and leave it languishing gathering dust in the bowels of the shed.😴

It won't win any shows, but I drive it regularly and it never fails to start a conversation wherever I pull over.
Even if the conversation does sometimes start off with "that's an old Renault isn't it"?😉

I reckon just do what's absolutely necessary and have some fun with it.🤷‍♂️View attachment 203642
If you want to drive it on the road in Vic it would have to be right to get a RWC. Maybe we don't need one every year but when we do need one it has to be right. Every car I've bought from NSW has been rubbish, so maybe you won't have any trouble getting it OKed up there.
 
If you want to drive it on the road in Vic it would have to be right to get a RWC. Maybe we don't need one every year but when we do need one it has to be right. Every car I've bought from NSW has been rubbish, so maybe you won't have any trouble getting it OKed up there.
I'm in QLD, but the car's perfectly safe. The worst cars I've bought have come from SA and WA.
I used to live in Vic, things must have changed?
 
I'm in QLD, but the car's perfectly safe. The worst cars I've bought have come from SA and WA.
I used to live in Vic, things must have changed?
Yes, it would be diabolical if we had to have yearly roadworthies. I fixed up a much better 404 than this one but couldn't get it it through the RWC due to the rust that had been there.
 
Hi Dan,

Absolutely admire your desire to bring the car back from brink. Not for one moment am I doubting your ability, but can I please offer the follow sage advice . This has been learnt from recent experience. If I were you and before you spend too much time and money, I would put the car up on blocks and strip it. As is common knowledge with 404's, there are a number of unseen places within the chassis that suffer extreme rust damage, but cannot be seen due to the outer covering panels. i.e. under windscreens top and bottom front and back. Where the A pillars meet the inner guards. Under the air dam vent channel. Usual suspects under floor buttresses and as mention front cross member. Would not be surprised if the chassis rails are gone under the suspension (sway bar mounts). Rear jacking points and rear box section crossmember. Then there is the side sills and front floors. Feel free to have a look at the early photos within my blog (69 404 Restoration) and they will give you a good heads up on what to look for. I know this may sound extreme, but how disappointing would it be to spend a lot of time and money undertaking repairs that can be seen, but not the damage that lies underneath only to find the unseen damage continues to spread.

That being said, there is immense self satisfaction in bring them back to life.

Cheers

Dano
 
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