BRAKE System Problem - Can you Help?

Justin B

Justin B

Member
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Aug 11, 2003
Messages
237
Location
Lugarno, Sydney
Background
* The 205 has pulled left since I got the car. The heaver the pedal force, the more it went left.
* Sometimes, there was a 'loud' clicking noise as the brake pedal was depressed. Not when released.
* There is slightly less pad left on the LEFT caliper then the right (indicating that the right caliper was not engaging properly?)
* I've had the right front wheel bearing replaced as there was some sort of bearing noise coming from there.
* With the car in the air, the right wheel wouldn't turn by hand.. caliper locked on?, left turned freely

Work Completed on the Car So Far
* Removed right front Caliper from the hub disconnecting all cables etc...
* On a bench I blew the piston out with compressed air, cleaned, and replaced seal and dust boots etc.. I also lightly sanded the surfaces with 1000 weight paper.
* Installed piston back in. Slid very well back into the housing.
* Cleaned and re-greased guide pins (FYI the mounting bolts go thru the guide pins onto the hub assembley)
* Installed caliper back onto the hub. Mounting bolts tightened to recommended torque setting.
* Bled 500mL through the front system (the rear has a separate fluid holder, so didn't do that)
* Greased (lanolin oil) the pivot point on the brake pedal

Problem
* The car still pulls left (sometimes). It depends on the 'clicking noise' I.e. the car will pull left, then I'll hear a click and * the car will go straight, press a little harder and it goes left until the clicking noise.
* When depressing the pedal, there is loud clicking noise from the right front caliper still occurs. The clicking noise continues as the pedal is released (i.e. I think the piston is now sliding properly )
* I've bled the fronts without air coming out, however the pedal still feels crap.
* If I depress the pedal hard towards the floor and release, the pedal returns back very very slowly to the top. the car doesn't move on a hill until the pedal is all the way up.
* Sometimes, the right front locks up very easily...

If you have any idea what I can do, look at, replace.. ANYTHING!!! I would apreciate the advice.

Thanks
Justin cry
peugeot_
 
I guess starting at the point where you left off, do the cleaning job on the left caliper.

sounds like the master cylinder though... The slow peadal return would indicate the fluid is not coming back freely. when you bleed the brakes, does the fluid flow freely at all wheels?
 
tekkie:
I guess starting at the point where you left off, do the cleaning job on the left caliper.

sounds like the master cylinder though... The slow peadal return would indicate the fluid is not coming back freely. when you bleed the brakes, does the fluid flow freely at all wheels?
Click to expand...
Hi Tekkie,
That is the plan this w/end to service kit the otherside (ran out of time last w/end) ... however I can't see how it is going to fix the problem. The left caliper seems to be working 100%...

As for the master cyl... Im not 100% sure, but is that the silver bar type thing that has the brake lines coming out of it with the fluid resevour on top? or is that the big black dinner plate type thing connected to the firewall..

Justin
 
Silly quetion, but are the pads and discs exaclty the same and in similar condition.
Are the lower A-arms bushes ok?, could the whole arm be bent, are the steering rods ok/bent/equal?
This click sounds like a suspention part flexing/moving and could couse the wheel to pull to one side, as the flex makes it pivot in the line of cater...? yes, no?
I only ask coz my old Alfa did this. i replaced all the front bushes and brake pads (found 2 diferent types!!) and presto all good! - regardless safe driving please mate, i hate to see a accident happen couse of it - chris
 
Chris,

the brake pedal should come back by itself straight away though!. It it is reluctant to comeback after being pressed there is a major problem. Sounds like a caliper is either not releasing, prop valve is blocked, brake line is blocked, or master cylinder has a problem.

When stationary the brake pedal should move freely everytime. Does it?

Master cylinder = silver alloy cylinder with fluid reseviour on top and brake lines coming out
Black thing bolted to firewall = brake booster, nothing more than a vaccum tank that helps to press the master cylinder pump that forces the fluid into brake calipers.

<small>[ 08 October 2003, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: tekkie ]</small>
 
Justin, I reckon your guide pins could be worn on the right side, causing the brake not to apply properly. You can buy these as a spare part - it'd be worth buying a set. Do they make a noise braking pretty hard in reverse?

Stuey
 
Stuey:
Justin, I reckon your guide pins could be worn on the right side, causing the brake not to apply properly. You can buy these as a spare part - it'd be worth buying a set. Do they make a noise braking pretty hard in reverse?

Stuey
Click to expand...
I'd be quite worried driving this car at all under those circumstances. If you hit anything or anyone you may find you have no insurance, quite apart from how bad you'd feel.

The two things that occur to me, although I'm more suspicious of the caliper and its mounts/pivots/guide pins and so forth, are:

1. Something worn or cracked in suspension component, suspension mountings or the ball joints/pivots, thus changing wheel geometry when the braking load comes on.

2. An internal problem in a brake hose causing something strange in fluid return. I've had this myself, with wheels locking on, due to loose flap of rubber inside hose. Fooled me for some time and I fixed several perfectly good things first!!

Have you been able to quizz the previous owner/dealer?

I'd definitely dismantly both sides at the front and fix them identically. Check very carefully that you do have the same components both sides. All sorts of things change between models without it necessarily being obvious.

Please tell us what fixed it, when you have sorted it.

Good luck.

JohnW
 
hmm whilst your there you may aswell do the back end to, you could have a little bit of air in them making the pedal a bit spongier and less responsive..
I know my old mans Suzuki carry van 800 cc's of fighting fury snail ....... nah no where near the same.. forget about that
 
HI all in sundry,

From some discussions from various people (froggies, friends and service people) coupled with my own suspicions from the start the following work will be carried out on the w/end

* Service kit the left caliper (as part of the 'balance' process)
* 4 new silder pins (both sides)
* Replace the Master Cyl. I can get one from the UK for $100 but the delivery delay is a pain.
* Bleed the entire system in the following sequence (as per Peter T's email to me)

LH front
RH front
RH rear
LH rear
LH front
RH front

I am 1/2 tempted to leave the master cyl for another day... I.e get the silders sorted, bleed the system and THEN see how spongy the pedal is.... brake fluid is only a few dollars..

Justin
 
Master cylinder kits should cost you a lot less than the master cylinder itself. All thats in it is just a few rubber plugs, washers etc, in the worst case scenario the bore of the MC could be score and would need reboring and then you are up for the new MC.

I am not familiar with the bleeding on 205 but fwd jap cars (NON-ABS) have a different bleeding sequence starting at LR, RF, RR, LF after bleeding the MC and Prop Valve 1st.
Most RWD's (NON-ABS) have the sequence of LR, RR, LF, RF.
Again I am not familiar with the Peugeot bleeding sequence.

good luck. spanner
 
Just to add to that, the general rule is to start with the wheel furthest away from the master cylinder, the next closest, and so on. Then each car has its own quirks according to the manufacturer's instructions based on pipe setup, brake ancillaries such as bias valves, and people's experiences...hence Peter's advice I guess. There are even different pumping procedures according to the type of master cylinder. In all, some are bloody hard to get right!

Stuey
 
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