Best Track Day Tyres

D

Dave172

Member
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Apr 18, 2003
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37
Location
Melbourne
Not sure if this exact topic has been covered before :confused: , but I am thinking of buying a set of semi-slick tyres to use with my original Clio Sport 15" rims, the idea being that I would swap rims just for track days like a lot of other people seem to do.

I have a few q's like:

What are my tyre choices?
Which is the best tyre in terms of performance and affordability?
What is the approx price per tyre (15")?
Where (in Melb) is the best place to buy them?
How do these tyres go in the wet?

Hope someone can help me out.

Dave
 
Oops, I should have put this post into the Performance Upgrades section.

Is there any way that I can move it?

Dave
 
Dave172,..
you have a good choice here, for 15x6 inch rims.
You can get in Semi-slick's
*Dunlop - Formula-R
*Yokohama - ADVAN
*KHUMO - ECSTA
*FALKEN - AZENIS
*BRDIGESTONE - RE's semi's
etc. and others
You are lookin at about $!000 for 4 tyres fitted. Depending on from who and what you choose.
In melb i have no idea though.
In the rain, (my own pug has AZENIS), they arn't too bad, grip well but can aquaplane more easily than equivalent sized road tyres.
** if you are going to have these on the road expect 10,000k' out of them, 1/2 the life of similar road tyres.

If you only use them on a track then consider FULL race slicks as they are a better tyre...simple. I drive to the tracks with the AZENIS on the car, but next time i will purchase full race slicks and swap at the track.
Also consider a good set of Brake pads at the very least, otherwise you could go home with a middle pedal sitting on the floor.
Hope this helps.. there is a few of us here who are meed keen on the trck stuff. cheers Xq
 
Further to this.....I wouldn't exactly label Falken Azenis as 'semis'. They are rather a damn good road tyre and are quite easy to overheat on the track. They are a good medium between road tyre and a tyre that doesn't crumble at the track.

I'll admit that I am quite biased towards Bridgestone so I'd be tempted to try out the new 55S. I beleive they will eventually replace the popular RE540

55S;

<img src="http://ms.bridgestone.co.jp/ms_tyre2/images/55s-tokutyo-a.jpg" alt=" - " />

540s;
<img src="http://ms.bridgestone.co.jp/ms_tyre/ms_top/2_gym/img/newtyre_540.gif" alt=" - " />
 
I would probably consider using the 17's for the track. The 15s would be better suited to the road where the taller/softer sidewall would be a bit more subtle over bumps and more progressive in its grip characteristics.

The 17's would be good on the track where there are little or know bumps to disturb the tyres contact patch with the road. The 17's would provide a much more consistent contact patch, especially with your car and its very firm, "no body roll" set-up.

That is my view anyway.... :D
 
mistareno:
I would probably consider using the 17's for the track. The 15s would be better suited to the road where the taller/softer sidewall would be a bit more subtle over bumps and more progressive in its grip characteristics.

That is my view anyway.... :D
Click to expand...
The few problems with 17's one a car that does not NEED to have them (larger brakes) is:
1. Cost of the rims and astronomical jump in prices for the 40 or so series rubber
2. The self imposed weight penalty of the 17's by far outweights (pun intended) the benefits of the stiffer sidewall. My Yokohama A032R which is a 60 series tyre has no noticable sidewall flex. And you could always run it with few more PSI making the tyre harder and less flexible. If properly pressurised sport tyres will remain very rigid. After speaking to some racers in USA a smaller diameter wheel remains a possibility for my car. Apparently the gearing is a lot more track friendly, less rotational weight and cheaper tyres.

A friend of mine bought some 16's for his Clio and uses the stock 15" Michelins for the track. He had no problems chasing down a lot of higher performance NA cars with no adverse affects on stock tyres. Mind boggles when he fits semi slick.
Your choices as Xqsid pointed out are Yokies A032R (as used by me), Bridgestone RE540 (although I have been told they are being discontinued), Dunlop-R (as used by Parry), Azenis Proxes (as used by XQ).
I love my yokies and whilst they are the cheapest of the bunch I would have no problems getting another set once this one wears out.

and one other thing. If you buy full slick tyres they will not be permitted on your car in Class 1 Supersprints or Hillclimbs and if you ever decide to go that way you will have to buy another set that is DOT approved.

Hope that helps
 
brenno, those New Re's LOOK AWESOME!!!, are you sure your not getting 115's and proper azenis confused, they are both semi's, but the later is easily better.
Mistereno,. 17's.. i see your point, but. ORD, Pitch and camber change, and all the suspention geometry has been set by the PSA guys at the factory for 15" rims, also consider unsprung weight and the fact that tiny ripples on a track at higher track speeds lift heavy low profile wheels for a longer period of the track surface,..mmm just a thought..... Xq
 
I use Dunlop Formula R's like Parry. Others use Yokohamas. Others use Bridgestone. Something I did learn at Wakefield last trip, is that Bridgestones have more heat cycles before going off. Unlike a Dunlop, which is very sticky early, but has less heat cycles.

I wouldn't get hung up on big rims. Plenty of people are going very quick on 185/60x14.

You can't buy Formula R's just anywhere. You have to go to a Dunlop Motorsport dealer.
 
Mistareno

I disagree with your contact patch theory. 17's would be a lot more expensive than 15's, and you would have to also purchase new rims. A lot of extra outlay for debatable benefit.

For a car the size and weight of a clio, 14 of 15 inch rims would be perfect.

<small>[ 19 July 2003, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: macquered ]</small>
 
Chris - yep I'm talking about the Azeni RS. I've sampled them on numerous cars on road and track and have come to the conclusion that they are just a very good road tyre. Not a semi-slick at all. The compound is just too hard (relatively) to justify that tag.
 
I am currently using the Dunlops for the track and agree with Peter, they are designed to be used once for a longish race and then used as practice tires.

I first used them at Eastern creek and they were superb!! Very sticky.

A month later at wakefield they were a totally diferent tire. But then again it was 6 degrees at the track.

Next is eastern creek again, lets hope they are better there.

I am thinking of trying the bridgestones next on the purpose built race car that Ashley and I are building.

<small>[ 19 July 2003, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: parry ]</small>
 
tekkie:
The few problems with 17's one a car that does not NEED to have them (larger brakes) is
1. Cost of the rims and astronomical jump in prices for the 40 or so series rubber
Click to expand...
Dave has the 17s (205/35 R17's from memory) on the car already. Yes I would agree that they are to low in profile for that type of car for road use IMHO (but hey, they look good :D ).

I would have thought a 50/45 series would be the lowest optimal tyre profile for his car.

I still think that bearing in mind the suspension mods that Dave has done to his car, (stiffer springs/shocks...not sure about the swaybars :confused: ) that a lower profile tyre would make a marked difference in grip level on a racetrack.

Increasing tyre pressure to "firm-up" the tyre is not the best way to change the characteristics of a tyre, as this throws out other aspects of the tyres preformance such as overheating the tyre itself and reducing traction.

Yes....they are alot more expensive :( :( but you dont think cars such as the 2L super tourers used to run around on 30 profile rubber because it looked good. The lower the profile the better the suspension geometry and tyre contact patch remains (until you hit a high frequency bump :D )

Yes there MAY be a higher rotating mass to slow down, but you'd be suprised by how much a high quality 17 inch wheel and trye combo weighs..the difference is minimal.

It all comes down to cost I suppose.... 2_cents
 
Hi Dave,
I've used both the Yokahama and Brigestone R-Spec tyres and have found them to be excellent. I found the Yokis and Bridgies reasonably similar, other than that the Yokis heated up quicker but seemed to wear more and the Bridgestones took a little while to heat up but lasted a bit longer.

Because of my current large front brakes I am running the 17's as my race tyres at the moment and the only R-spec tyre I could find to fit inside the guards was a Toyo 205-40-17. These have been absolutely brilliant on the 205 for me - I've had good, even wear and excellent grip. I've just replaced the 2 fronts after about 6 months of the season (including a lot of regular road driving) and the rears look as good as new - they don't spend a lot of time on the ground :D

Oh and one more thought re your question about running R-specs in the wet. I've come to many a track day or road rally to find some of the guys have decided to run their normal road tyres instead of R-specs thinking they'll get better grip in the wet from a road tyre - bad mistake :) From my experience, any good R-spec will outperform any road tyre in either wet or dry.

Have Fun
Steve

<small>[ 19 July 2003, 08:13 PM: Message edited by: WRX2PUG ]</small>
 
Steve,
I've got "wet" and "dry" Formula R's. The wet's are 93J and the dry's are the regular D01J. Most probably wouldn't bother with wet tyres. I was just luck to come accross them.
 
Thanks for your feedback guys.

Based on your comments, I am leaning towards the Bridgestone RE540s due to their ability to last slightly longer on the track before going off. I have also seen a lot of other people running these tyres to good effect at track days, including Brian Ward who beat me at Sandown by 2 sec in his 405 Mi16 (I was on std road tyres).

The new Bridgestone RE55S tyres look bloody good though. Does anyone know if they are currently available in Oz and what their price is?

As Mistereno pointed out, I do use 17s on the road (205/40 R17), but I must admit that I mainly bought them because they LOOK so much better than the std 15s. However, I have a preference for 15s on the track because (1) the tyres are cheaper, (2) they have lower unsprung weight, (3) the slightly smaller overall diameter provides more favourable gearing on the track, (4) they bring the car slightly lower to the ground, (5) I don't have big brakes, so I don't NEED big wheels, and (6) LOOKS don't matter on the track!

The biggest advantage I can see for running the 17s at the track is brake cooling. The std 15" Clio rims are a fairly closed in design and I am concerned that the brakes may overheat after a few hard laps. Note that I have upgraded the front pads to EBC Greenstuff with great results so far, so this may not be an issue at all.

Finally, do normal tyre retailers sell the 540s? If not, who should I contact to get my hands on a set? I did a search on the net, but nothing much came up.

Thanks again for your help guys.

Dave :)
 
dave,

"stuckeys" on sydney road in brunswick is a good place to start in looking for performance tyres. they specialise in dunlop but have a lot of other r-rated tyres in other brands as well. they are on the right side of sydney road going away from the city (about 200m past albion street).

luan :)
 
I'm using RE540's on my 205 and they are absolutely brilliant. On my totally standard suspension and these tyres I was able to get great levels of grip. I've got 185/60/14's and they cost me $235 each.

As the others mentioned they do take a little longer to come up to temp but they last for a lot longer before going off. But, they do get very sticky just the same.

When I bought mine I spoke to the local motorsport tyre dealer and told him what I was planning on doing and he recommended the 540's over the other semi's available. I have got them on mine for both road and track but the road usage is very minimal as it is only driven on weekends and trackdays etc.

I would definately recommend them.

EDIT. I got mine in Sydney from Gorodon Leven Tyres at Emu Plains (02) 4735 4500. They are the Sydney motorsport tyre dealer. You MAY be able to find them somewhere else but they will most probably be a LOT more expensive. Thats what I found anyway.

Darren

<small>[ 21 July 2003, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: MYT205 ]</small>
 
I thought the RE540 didnt come in sizes smaller than 195 ???

I looked at the RE's but the 195 would have been too big for my car. 185's just squeeze in without rolling the guards. And the Yokies seemed like the best deal for me at the time.
 
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