AL4 reliability = Awesome !

N5GTi6

N5GTi6

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Having had my fingers crossed just a little over the last 4 years of ownership, and having just sold our C3, I can now say the reliability of our AL4 was just fine.

I changed the gearbox oil as soon as we bought it - not that it was smelly or dirty but just as 'insurance' servicing.

It always made an unusual feint tinny whine - more so when cold, but it always worked perfectly.

No thumping gear changes - no silly limp home modes, no jumping out of gear - it just worked as a gearbox should.

Thumbs up for the mighty AL4 !

Cheers

Justin
 
Don't get me wrong but I don't want to claim for a minute that my success was simply due to the brand and type of oil I used at change time.

I believe any brand of oil, as long as it meets the requirements of PSA, is a good thing to use to change your gearbox oil.

For the record I used Penrite Automatic Transmission Fluid ATF FS as it met those requirements.

My comment was mainly along the lines that I don't believe all AL4's are destined for failure, and that appropriate servicing has to be a good thing as a part of that.

Cheers

Justin
 
No, no. Just gathering intel, not making any judgements, LOL!
I have a post on here where I recount buying a used 2003 1.4i C3 with the dreaded run-a-muck AL4. Changed the electro valves and after 3 tanks of fuel, it ran like a swiss watch...well...at least the way I expected it to LOL. It did not have the "recommended" fluid in it when I bought it. I replaced the fluid with Penrite BMV, what I believe to be equivalent to the recommended fluid.
Like you, I am not saying using "the wrong fluid" did or didn't have anything to do with the failure of the electro valves and I am just trying to make up my own mind about the whole "use the right stuff or your gearbox will fall apart" guff you see on the net.
As a post script to that I am getting a second 2003 C3 back on the road (it's a long story). This one had (I changed the fluid on spec) the original fluid in the transmission (140,000Km), but I have NOT run it on the road so I do not know if the transmission runs OK or not.
Like alhantos, I do not believe in "sealed for life" fluids. Again, just my opinion.
 
We had a C5 with an AL4 gearbox and it ran without issue till we retired it at 278000km. I changed the transmission oil every 50,000km. Actually it was the most reliable car we ever had.
 
I'm currently running around in a 406 HDi with the AL4 transmission. It has just today clicked over 310,000km. It had a transmission service about 40,000km ago according to the paperwork, and it still shifts perfectly every time.

It's choice of when to shift however, is a different matter. The AL4 is an idiot. So much so that I'm considering building my own transmission controller for it.
 
As mentioned in another post Penrite ATF FS has been the life saver of the AL4 as it can be purchased at most auto stores is equivalent to the original and if you follow the fluid change instructions saves this box from many qwerks.
Last weekend the wife's C5 with AL4 (we call Carlo5 as we saved him from being scrapped) had a fresh valve body and new Penrite changed as dropping into limp mode every morning until the fluid warned to operating temperature was getting awkward getting upto highway speed while stuck in limp mode (3rd gear). Any way simple job and we will get another 60k before next fluid replacement.
Next job is for C5 (Red devil) to get a replacement torque convertor into its AL4 and that will be the last time I drop that box for a long time.

So good boxes when they work as designed and have regular fluid change.
 
AL4 is a great unit and I hate automatics.
Our old delivery van had one, Renault Kangoo 1.6 auto and it was excellent. Did 312000 and never missed a beat. Never got serviced, never got touched and sometimes it would play up, maybe once every few months but after 312000 without ever having an oil change who could blame it.
We bought a late model Berlingo only because it made economic sense not because the Kangoo was faulty, in fact the young kid who bought it is still rapt in it.
Secret is according to an AL4 transmission specialist we know is how you drive them. Our Kangoo was so good because it did lots of kms so it was always warm and we thrashed the crap out of it. Always full throttle and always full revs. Tony's theory is that hot oil at full pressure is blasting all the crap out of the filters and not letting slush build up anywhere. He says all the AL4's we gets in are always put putting around the streets, often never getting hot and never getting full throttle.
Secret to AL4 happiness is thrash the shit out of them.
 
David Cavanagh said:
AL4 is a great unit and I hate automatics.
Our old delivery van had one, Renault Kangoo 1.6 auto and it was excellent. Did 312000 and never missed a beat. Never got serviced, never got touched and sometimes it would play up, maybe once every few months but after 312000 without ever having an oil change who could blame it.
We bought a late model Berlingo only because it made economic sense not because the Kangoo was faulty, in fact the young kid who bought it is still rapt in it.
Secret is according to an AL4 transmission specialist we know is how you drive them. Our Kangoo was so good because it did lots of kms so it was always warm and we thrashed the crap out of it. Always full throttle and always full revs. Tony's theory is that hot oil at full pressure is blasting all the crap out of the filters and not letting slush build up anywhere. He says all the AL4's we gets in are always put putting around the streets, often never getting hot and never getting full throttle.
Secret to AL4 happiness is thrash the shit out of them.
Click to expand...
I have often pondered why my lagoon 1 never missed a beat, and then after I sold it the box promptly died.
My house was in the hills and whichever way you went saw the car climbing a decent size incline at speed.
Jo
 
David would that apply to the 4HP20 as well? Getting it hot seems counter intuitive, as mine seems perfect when cold, but thumps on down changes when hot.

I was actually planning on improving the cooling - perhaps I should make contact with Tony (frenchtranstech?) and seek advice ...

Cheers
Alec
 
Armidillo said:
David would that apply to the 4HP20 as well? Getting it hot seems counter intuitive, as mine seems perfect when cold, but thumps on down changes when hot.

I was actually planning on improving the cooling - perhaps I should make contact with Tony (frenchtranstech?) and seek advice ...

Cheers
Alec
Click to expand...

Not sure about that. One of the guys here is fitting larger coolers to ZF's trying to keep the temps down.
Tony is Race Shift Automatics in Epping, he's a general trans specialist with a passion for French stuff and likes Euro transmissions.
 
This is not helping my quest to sell a refurbished AL4(Xsara) and a good clean DPO (Megane) gearbox...

I think we need to start back with the idea that they will explode soon with no warning and you should all have a spare one on hand.
 
Seriously, please buy them... Has to be a dead/dying AL4 out there somewhere?
 
I also find the AL4 a pretty good auto in our C3. We had an issue early this year with a solenoid . Luckily the dealer in our area doesn't mind
1.- Fixing older models,
2.- Attending to AL4 issues and changing gearbox fluids. Complete drain and refill was done with Castrol suitable oil.
Since then, no issues whatsoever, and you can really appreciate what that transmission was designed to do. Particularly like the engine braking, going down steep hills which other autos don't do.
 
Last edited:
harrisson_citroen said:
I also find the AL4 a pretty good auto in our C3. We had an issue early this year with a solenoid . Luckily the dealer in our area doesn't mind
1.- Fixing older models,
2.- Attending to AL4 issues and changing gearbox fluids. Complete drain and refill was done with Castrol suitable oil.
Since then, no issues whatsoever, and you can really appreciate what that transmission was designed to do. Particularly like the engine break down steep hills which other autos don't do.
Click to expand...

Yes agree it's a thinking auto. I like the way it adapts to your driving style.
I can't believe I'm saying nice things about an automatic transmission.
 
David Cavanagh said:
Yes agree it's a thinking auto. I like the way it adapts to your driving style.
I can't believe I'm saying nice things about an automatic transmission.
Click to expand...

....and to boot - it's about the MIGHTY AL4 !!!!

Cheers

Justin
 
I can't attest to it "thinking"(lol) but when I changed the valves, apart from it not going into limp mode...nothing happened. Poor shift points and clunky changes remained! However!!! After three tanks of fuel the gearbox was running as well as I would have expected and settled down quite nicely.
So I can say it does "adapt" in one form or another.
 
They’re better in lighter cars. In the Megane it was short a gear and generally not awesome - not geared high enough for the highway and too big a gap between 3rd and 4th. Any downshift for a hill on the highway meant it revved it’s tits off...

Was much better in the lighter Xsara with a better power to weight ratio.

They both fumbled shifts and especially had crap downshifts under pressure. They’re really not very good objectively, they’re just not as terrible as most people think.
 
Haakon said:
They’re better in lighter cars. In the Megane it was short a gear and generally not awesome - not geared high enough for the highway and too big a gap between 3rd and 4th. Any downshift for a hill on the highway meant it revved it’s tits off...

Was much better in the lighter Xsara with a better power to weight ratio.

They both fumbled shifts and especially had crap downshifts under pressure. They’re really not very good objectively, they’re just not as terrible as most people think.
Click to expand...

Our Kangoo had a low 1st gear and would easily spin it's wheels off the line, It won many traffic light drags against things it shouldn't be able to beat. Downside was it screamed it's head off on the highway, Our X84 Megane was much better on the highway but wouldn't accelerate like the Kangoo. Never lived with a Xsara auto so can't comment, had a manual Xsara for a while and that was so much fun.

Agree there not as terrible as most people think, not as terrible as I originally thought.
 
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