405 performance against 205

deltone

deltone

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How does a 405 mi16 handle and perform compared to a 205 GTi?

Dont worry about engine performance, i may put a t16 engine in it which would solve any under power issues. I am really after handling, performance and feel.

never driven a 405 before.
 
Having owned both and being an old coot now I prefer the 405. I think of it as a 205 with manners. 205's are great with go kart handling and nimbleness whereas the 405 has all the brilliant handling characteristics without the character flaws of it's little brother.
 
You can lift a rear wheel in an MI16...much fun car!
 
dhaw said:
You can lift a rear wheel in an MI16...much fun car!
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Even more so in a 205. We take most tight corners on three wheels.

405 vrs 205 is a like big ship small ship in big sea. The 405 smooths out the bumps. It's a better car on the undulating sweepers, but the 205 is better in the tight, twisty stuff.
 

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Thats a great shot of Owen there Pete! Car looks good. ADrian, get it back on the road!

Cam
 
Plenty of three wheel action by everyone!
 

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PeterT said:
Plenty of three wheel action by everyone!
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The designers realised early on what a weapon the 205 would be for club motorsport. They went the extra to provide so that the chassis allowed for three wheeling, this saves on tyre wear....allegedly!:D and makes the 205 one of the very few FWD cars that actually has predictable oversteer.
:cheers: Brendan.
 
excuse the stupid question i know nothing about racing, but what is so special about three wheeling. I see people talk about it all the time as if three wheeling is the mark of a good car (and or driver)

Wheel Lift | Morse Measurements

i tried reading this, and its quite confusing and technical.
 
Not that much. It shows an unloaded corner of the car either under power (front inner wheel - centrifugal force and inertia combine to give a resultant net force that basically loads the rear outside wheel, hence the car rolls back and leans out) or a really tight cornering car (rear inner wheel off the ground, this time the same forces combine to load the front outer wheel). That article rambles on too much mixing what causes wheels to lift with how to combat lifting whilst not presenting the basic physics behind it which quite simple.
 
I have reduced this with my rally 205, no ARB on the front and an Si one on the rear.
The wheels stay on the ground a lot more of the time now and the car is working a lot better.
Still less body roll than a standard GTI due to uprated springs and torsion bars.
I would use a 205 for gravel and 405 for bitumen.
Probably unlike others I've found the 405 to be quite violent at the limit, on gravel or bitumen, and the 205 to be very predictable and easy to handle but not with the slow unassisted steering.
Graham

lion5 said:
excuse the stupid question i know nothing about racing, but what is so special about three wheeling. I see people talk about it all the time as if three wheeling is the mark of a good car (and or driver)

Wheel Lift | Morse Measurements

i tried reading this, and its quite confusing and technical.
Click to expand...
 
Yes but that's what is confusing. It says early on that if you get wheel lift you're doing something right. Then it goes on to say how to combat it...

Why is it a good thing?

Via the aussiefrogs App
 
lion5 said:
Yes but that's what is confusing. It says early on that if you get wheel lift you're doing something right. Then it goes on to say how to combat it...

Why is it a good thing?

Via the aussiefrogs App
Click to expand...

Well from a safety perspective it's not good, it means you have less grip overall...not that a tyre without much load is providing significant grip anyway. Generally you need stiff suspension and a particular setup to get a wheel to lift.

Why is it good? Well with a good chassis lifting a wheel means you're right on the limit, most likely steering with the rear and having a bucketload of fun. :) Well, most of the time anyway. I regularly cock the inside rear just pulling into my local Subway on account of the firm suspension and front-heavy weight distribution. :roflmao:
 
Yes, happens all the time with driveways.
My GTi always hangs a rear wheel into my drive at home, the rally car keeps all 4 on the ground.
My Mi16 almost got stuck (front wheel off the ground) when driving out of the local Shell servo, SRi drives out with no problem at all.

TrinityJayOne said:
Well from a safety perspective it's not good, it means you have less grip overall...not that a tyre without much load is providing significant grip anyway. Generally you need stiff suspension and a particular setup to get a wheel to lift.

Why is it good? Well with a good chassis lifting a wheel means you're right on the limit, most likely steering with the rear and having a bucketload of fun. :) Well, most of the time anyway. I regularly cock the inside rear just pulling into my local Subway on account of the firm suspension and front-heavy weight distribution. :roflmao:
Click to expand...
 
I've had the front churning air on occasion too...haven't got stuck yet fortunately! I thought it was a phenomenon restricted to chopped JDMs until it happened to me.
 
Most of the time I have no idea my 205 is on three wheels. You certainly can't feel in coming off/on. After a supersprint session, someone usually say how incredible it is, after following me around. It's really no big deal. If the car is setup properly, you just drive it to the limit.
 
3 wheeling? pffft.

b16e9e5195e604ca68a9cb8e89da4033.jpg


Realistically its just the shortcoming of the design Peugeot used in the rear suspension of these cars. I always found 405's way more violent on the limit too, longer wheelbase increasing the weight shift length? (+shagged beams.) 405 doesn't even come close sorry.
 
PeterT said:
Most of the time I have no idea my 205 is on three wheels. You certainly can't feel in coming off/on. After a supersprint session, someone usually say how incredible it is, after following me around. It's really no big deal. If the car is setup properly, you just drive it to the limit.
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My 206 is the same. I was equally surprised about some of the RWD cars lifting front wheels through corners last weekend.
Not the best picture.
rnd 1 my improved prod 144.jpg
 
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