308 Petrol Turbo not starting. Cranks a couple of times then just cuts out.

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Krammig

Member
Tadpole
Joined
Jun 6, 2018
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Location
Gold Coast
Thanks for reading,

A perfectly running 308 Turbo Petrol 2007 will now not start.

Rotating the key to the starting position, the engine turns over a couple of times then shuts off itself, even though I have the key in the starting position. Normally of course if there is a starting issue as I have seen before in our 207 and other cars, the engine keeps cranking as long as you have the key in the start position.

In this case however, after a couple of cranks it just cuts out my itself, stops cranking.

It is as if it has detected something is not set or being detected and just cuts out.

Observations

a)
Errors
Engine control unit #3
P2262 Turbocharger boost pressure not detected
P1694 Turbo Charge Reliefe Malfunction

The second I am guessing is just because of the first.
I am skeptical that it is the first anyway, but could be wrong. If so - what can I check ?
I did read someone else had this problem and it turned out to be the crank timing sensor. Not sure where that is or how to test it.

b)
There is petrol pressure in the fuel rail

c)
If I insert the key and just turn it to standby as I call it, the first notch, the fuel pump starts up and runs for about 10 seconds. Then there is nothing, no other sounds. I seem to recall that normally the fuel pump runs for a lesser amount of time and then there is some clicking/clunk from engine bay area indicating something has kicked in. This is from memory so I could be wrong but I have that sense of it.

d)
FYI I did replace the Radiator Fan Cooling Resistor Relay last week and the car has been running fine since.

e)
Checked all fuses

I would appreciate any suggestions on where to start looking / probing etc, as it is my wifes car that she uses to get to work.

I have a Viecar ODBII and also am handy with a multimeter.

Cheers
 
Not sure on the stopping cranking reason that is unusual this may mean the starter solenoid no longer energised so could be a starter motor fault. These are fun to remove!!

The other 2 could relate to the turbo solenoid on the side of the turbo they do tend to rupture.

Sorry on ideas as I've had 3 X 308s but not had these fault codes
 
P1694 is a starter fault, probably in the wiring (Codes starting with 1 or 2 are manufacturer specific).

Peugeot docs call it "Ligne de commande démarreur défectueux" Check wires to the starter solenoid. It could also be an ECU to starter "anomaly" (Peugeot calls it DAMP = démarrage et arrêt moteur piloté)

P2262, also manufacturer specific, still means boost pressure not detected. It might be the sensor.

I haven't seen this combination myself.
 
Wild thought - check the crank sensor. It might be confusing the ECU starting routine.
 
Planning to check the crank sensor tomorrow morning. The old bones are tired.

A question though on the turbo solenoid, I can't find it :)

Is it the 2nd image below, or is it actually the one I installed a while back on the bottom right of the engine photo, being the 3rd image attached.

And .. is that the same as the boost pressure valve solendoid ?

I have had a look for the 2nd image, can't seem to find it. Please see attached. Also added a photo of the engine. I believe it is a T7

Thanks
 

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The turbo solenoid is hidden, in an act of extreme malice, under the inlet manifold
 

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Looks similar. Like this.
e goes to atmosphere - the tube is open at the end.
3 from vacuum source.
4 boost control line.

solenoid vakve.png
 
Well after pulling a bunch of dtuff off the car and crawling around I thought I would just get back to basics and check if there is a spark. it appears there is no spark on any of the 4 plugs. Most strange.

I have tried to find out
a)
how to test voltage at the 3 pins going into the coil (disconnected) but no luck.
Will this just be 12v and safe to check ?
Do I need to check from the plug pins to chassis or just between the 3 pins. Ignition on or turning over ?
b)
If no voltage ?
c)
If voltage ?

Would someone have a circuit diagram please that shows where the voltage comes from to the coil plugs.

Thanks.
 
Also I am having trouble finding the crank shaft sensor.
Please see attached images. I just can't seem to find it.
 
Krammig said:
Also I am having trouble finding the crank shaft sensor.
Please see attached images. I just can't seem to find it.
Click to expand...

The red circle shows a cable that seems to plug in behind the upper part of that tensioner assembly. Doesn't seem to me to be correct location of a crank shaft sensor.
Apart from that I just can't see anything. I have also looked behind.

Cheers
 

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Measures off a toothed wheel at the rear (flywheel end) of crankshaft, rear of motor.

This diagram comes from a French discussion of the engine:

bougies.png
 
Thanks.

And thanks for staying with me.

I have travelled further and it's getting more strange

I just used a connectable scanner as opposed to the wireless one I was using. Reset codes and tried again.

Now, the starter continues to turn over, not cutting out.
Moreover, the error codes are completely different...

P0113 intake air temp sensor High
P0122 throttle/pedal position Low
P0238 turbocharger/supercharger boost sensor A High
P3010
P3011

Crazy right ?
Thoughts welcome.
Cheers
 
You have a very confused computer.

P0113 and P0122 are believed to be open circuit on battery or earth, both temp sensor and butterfly. P0238 is an open circuit at the boost sensor.

P3010 is a maker-specific code - throttle butterfly position unknown, perhaps blocked.
P3011 also specific and related to 3010 - butterfly return spring not closing

The butterfly for this engine is motorised and is at the rear at the entrance of the plenum.

It might be a dud butterfly, but when codes are all over the place it's best to check you have full battery voltage. A bad battery can lead to ECU reading errors in multiple places. Too many attempts at starting?
 
Too many attempts at starting...

Fair comment. Though I'm sure the battery is ok. As mentioned I also jumpered from another battery, and also from another running car with the same result.
I'm thinking the Android app I used initially with the Viecar ODBII was just different to using a PP2000 type hard wired plug in device.

It just strikes me that with these erratic errors from different areas in the car might be due to a common thread being a missing voltage on some rail.
If that rail was common to all these sensors, and if that voltage was being controlled by a single switch such as a relay, or a condition such as some sensor indicating a state, then that would make sense.
I was thinking if I could find out why the spark plugs were not firing I could work back from there because that is the most visually obvious indicator.
Regarding the butterfly you mentioned, is it possible to manually trigger that if that makes sense to try ?

Thanks
 
Normal. The needle will flick up when it starts.
 
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