205si upgrades

A

apitiser

Member
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
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107
Location
Vancouver Island, Canada
Hi,

so I've had my car for a month or so now and I'd like to start tinkering with it. I'm not looking at making this the fastest car ever, an affordable 205 that is comfortable and can go decently quick on windy roads, dirt or at club events. The car is fine right now, but there are things that could be improved.

I've been reading about suspension upgrades to the 205 and what cheap options there are for my si and I was wondering if i could get some feedback from the community.

First thing is the suspension. When I have googled 205 suspension upgrades there have been a lot of options, adjustable coilovers, billies and koni's etc but there is always a comment that says what the peugeot engineers have done is just about right so don't mess it up so I'm going to try and stick with this ethos. This article has also helped with my decision making https://www.205gtidrivers.com/forums/topic/120157-how-not-to-modify-your-205s-suspension/

The plan at the moment is this.

- Look for a gti rear end or rebuild the one in the car and add a thicker rear ARB
- rear shocks from a xsi/gti6
- replace front shocks with xsi/'6 shocks, s2 405 top mount, springs of some sort...

I'm not sure what to do about front springs. Will the si springs be ok to go back in? Is it worth it getting them reset? Is the any difference between the si springs and the gti?
Would using parts from other Peugeots be a worthwhile upgrade or am I better off buying some bilsteins and eibach springs?

The car rolls around quite a lot, I have run it at a few bitumen motorkhanas now and have come to the conclusion that I would like it to sit flatter when cornering. Grip doesn't really seem to be an issue even with how much it rolls but it would be nice if it felt a bit firmer.

I'm going to look for some 266mm discs and calipers from a 306 too. The standard 247mm solid rotor isn't cutting it. For a car that weighs so little it stops so slowly.

The last thing I would like to do it throw my mi16 motor into it. Maybe over xmas. I will be doing more research into this but are there any in depth guides about this swap? I want to know everything I need and what problems I might encounter. Alternatively is the anyone in Melbourne that has this swap that I could check out and talk to the owner?

Thanks
 
I dont know the rules in Vic however just be careful planting the MI16 where a 1.6 was. It may be illegal.
 
jr20516v said:
I dont know the rules in Vic however just be careful planting the MI16 where a 1.6 was. It may be illegal.
Click to expand...

Thanks for mentioning this. I’ve had a read of the rules today and vicroads mentioned that you can replace the motor with another as long as it was offered in that model so I’m going to interpret that as it’s ok because the 1.9 gti exists. It did say the motor had to be from the other model but the 1.9 gti and the mi16s 1.9 are both xu9’s so it should be fine right?
 
Same block yes, but change in the number of cam shafts (8v to 16v) Maybe the issue, as my car is considered a Club rally car instead of a production rally car due to this rule.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Congrats on the 205!

Prepare for differing opinions, although all have their merit. Mine are all anecdotal, so here is my 2c

If you don't decide to put a bigger engine in, early 306 ATE brake setup (247mm) will be fine, and will still fit under the lighter wheels. The Bendix caliper is shocking once it starts to bind, unless they have been regularly serviced. All you need is calipers, bolts and rotors and you're set. I put mine straight onto worn discs with pads from the wreckers and it is 200% better.

I don't know if you have driven 205s in the past, but they really require respect. I thought I needed more power in my 205 when I first got it. It's been over a year now of weekend drives. I now have enough confidence (maybe too much) to really throw it around corners and play with its addictive oversteer. But my ego < 205. It will try to kill you the moment you think you are better than the car. Do not take this as condescending, but if you feel you have the maturity or it's an event car, go for it. Otherwise I say get your suspension sorted out and drive it some more before you chuck another 30kW into 900kg of car.

As for suspension I'll let the Si boys answer, as it reportedly goes better than the GTI in gravel with stock setup and is generally more flickable. Don't get too hung up on trying to make it a GTI! I would kill for an Si ...and my missus would kill me.
 
If it were mine:

Rear Suspension - no need to fit GTi beam. Just fit 21mm torsion bars and the biggest ARB you can fit inside the Si beam. Spax shocks.

Front Suspension - throw all the Si stuff away and fit GTi arms and cross member, along with GTi coils reset 30mm lower. Spax shocks.

Gearbox - keep the casing, throw the rest in the bin. Fit GTi 1,2,3,4,5 gears and an Mi16 cwp. Quaife, or 3J diff if you're going on the track.

Brakes - 266mm rotors and matching 206/306 calipers. 22mm master cylinder, braided front hoses.

Drive that with the stock engine for a while. See how you like it.
 
Nothing wrong with 247 mm brakes it is in the calipers. Just replace with a set of 247 mm vented discs and ATE calipers from an early 306.

apitiser said:
Hi,

so I've had my car for a month or so now and I'd like to start tinkering with it. I'm not looking at making this the fastest car ever, an affordable 205 that is comfortable and can go decently quick on windy roads, dirt or at club events. The car is fine right now, but there are things that could be improved.

I've been reading about suspension upgrades to the 205 and what cheap options there are for my si and I was wondering if i could get some feedback from the community.

First thing is the suspension. When I have googled 205 suspension upgrades there have been a lot of options, adjustable coilovers, billies and koni's etc but there is always a comment that says what the peugeot engineers have done is just about right so don't mess it up so I'm going to try and stick with this ethos. This article has also helped with my decision making https://www.205gtidrivers.com/forums/topic/120157-how-not-to-modify-your-205s-suspension/

The plan at the moment is this.

- Look for a gti rear end or rebuild the one in the car and add a thicker rear ARB
- rear shocks from a xsi/gti6
- replace front shocks with xsi/'6 shocks, s2 405 top mount, springs of some sort...

I'm not sure what to do about front springs. Will the si springs be ok to go back in? Is it worth it getting them reset? Is the any difference between the si springs and the gti?
Would using parts from other Peugeots be a worthwhile upgrade or am I better off buying some bilsteins and eibach springs?

The car rolls around quite a lot, I have run it at a few bitumen motorkhanas now and have come to the conclusion that I would like it to sit flatter when cornering. Grip doesn't really seem to be an issue even with how much it rolls but it would be nice if it felt a bit firmer.

I'm going to look for some 266mm discs and calipers from a 306 too. The standard 247mm solid rotor isn't cutting it. For a car that weighs so little it stops so slowly.

The last thing I would like to do it throw my mi16 motor into it. Maybe over xmas. I will be doing more research into this but are there any in depth guides about this swap? I want to know everything I need and what problems I might encounter. Alternatively is the anyone in Melbourne that has this swap that I could check out and talk to the owner?

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
PeterT said:
Gearbox - keep the casing, throw the rest in the bin. Fit GTi 1,2,3,4,5 gears and an Mi16 cwp. Quaife, or 3J diff if you're going on the track.
Click to expand...

Why do you recommend MI16 CWP Peter? Im curious as I would like to make my S2 less noisy on the highway, but not stunt it's acceleration. Asking as I am about to swap a gearbox..
 
I would keep using the 405 for motorsport, definitely a quicker car than a 205 and just drive and enjoy the 205. Come and take a drive of my Auto, nothing done to it except for the Speedlines, although it does need the 306 brakes.
 
The 4.43 S16 box made a huge difference to my Si. Sis don't work until 3000 rpm, which means with the standard diff you are out of the power band at the 100 km/h limit. Now it pulls up hills beautifully, of course better acceleration and the gap between 1st and 2nd is reduced
.

flock said:
Why do you recommend MI16 CWP Peter? Im curious as I would like to make my S2 less noisy on the highway, but not stunt it's acceleration. Asking as I am about to swap a gearbox..
Click to expand...
 
flock said:
Why do you recommend MI16 CWP Peter? Im curious as I would like to make my S2 less noisy on the highway, but not stunt it's acceleration. Asking as I am about to swap a gearbox..
Click to expand...

Because it's the lowest ratio available cheaply. It's what you need for this description:

"....and can go decently quick on windy roads, dirt or at club events."

What's an S2?
 
Fix the exhaust. Or check the timing. I drove a UK spec 1.9 GTi from Sydney to Melbourne, had to buy a set of ear muffs. Turned out to be just the ignition timing retarded. It had been regularly serviced by a Peugeot specialist, maybe he was asked by the owner to make it possible to run on 91 octane? There was heaps of that thick and heavy sound deadener on the floor, which made no difference. Same goes for nearly all Sis, which have been detuned to run on 91. If you can get a TAD99 (supplied to workshops in the early 90s) you can fix this. This device reads the codes of Bosch ECUs and allows timing adjustment for Marelli, both Mono point and Multi.
 
PeterT said:
If it were mine:

Rear Suspension - no need to fit GTi beam. Just fit 21mm torsion bars and the biggest ARB you can fit inside the Si beam. Spax shocks.

Front Suspension - throw all the Si stuff away and fit GTi arms and cross member, along with GTi coils reset 30mm lower. Spax shocks.

Gearbox - keep the casing, throw the rest in the bin. Fit GTi 1,2,3,4,5 gears and an Mi16 cwp. Quaife, or 3J diff if you're going on the track.

Brakes - 266mm rotors and matching 206/306 calipers. 22mm master cylinder, braided front hoses.

Drive that with the stock engine for a while. See how you like it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply PeterT. What you have written is pretty much what I would like for the car plus some extra things. An lsd would be great but unless one comes up 2nd hand and cheap then it will have to wait until later.

Rear Suspension - how big are the standard si torsion bars? can I keep the si ones and put in a bigger ARB or is it better to change them both? I'm having trouble finding out the specs on google on what size each model has.

Front Suspension - I'm going to keep the si lower control arms and cross member until I'm not satisfied with them or find gti parts for sale. I would like to find some reset gti springs soon though

I see you recommended spax shocks. Why these over koni's or bilsteins?
Would using xsi or gti6 shocks be worth a try at all or would I be wasting time? I can find them locally for not much money and I figured they would work better than what is currently in the car.

I'm also just going to leave the gearbox alone until I make up my mind about doing a swap or if a s16 box turns up for sale somewhere. I like what graham said about the improvement with that box.

Your brake suggestion is spot on with my plans!

I'll probably make a post soon looking some of these parts soon
 
GRAHAM WALLIS said:
I would keep using the 405 for motorsport, definitely a quicker car than a 205 and just drive and enjoy the 205. Come and take a drive of my Auto, nothing done to it except for the Speedlines, although it does need the 306 brakes.
Click to expand...

That is the plan for now. I took the 405 out to a dirt motorkhana in the weekend. It's my first time driving it since the Magical ironbark tour. It is really nice to drive compared to the 205. It's faster, the brakes are more effective and it's comfier so I'll keep using it for a while.

The car still needs to get the timing checked and changed if it is retarded. fingers crossed that brings more life into the motor.

Your suggestion to run the s16 box looks quite appealing too haha

I really appreciate all of your suggestions!
 
flock said:
Congrats on the 205!

Prepare for differing opinions, although all have their merit. Mine are all anecdotal, so here is my 2c

If you don't decide to put a bigger engine in, early 306 ATE brake setup (247mm) will be fine, and will still fit under the lighter wheels. The Bendix caliper is shocking once it starts to bind, unless they have been regularly serviced. All you need is calipers, bolts and rotors and you're set. I put mine straight onto worn discs with pads from the wreckers and it is 200% better.

I don't know if you have driven 205s in the past, but they really require respect. I thought I needed more power in my 205 when I first got it. It's been over a year now of weekend drives. I now have enough confidence (maybe too much) to really throw it around corners and play with its addictive oversteer. But my ego < 205. It will try to kill you the moment you think you are better than the car. Do not take this as condescending, but if you feel you have the maturity or it's an event car, go for it. Otherwise I say get your suspension sorted out and drive it some more before you chuck another 30kW into 900kg of car.

As for suspension I'll let the Si boys answer, as it reportedly goes better than the GTI in gravel with stock setup and is generally more flickable. Don't get too hung up on trying to make it a GTI! I would kill for an Si ...and my missus would kill me.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty familiar with how the car handles now. I haven't really had much experience with 205's either. it has mainly been Codmans si and my own one. I have put a video in of my car at the last motorkhana I was at. you can see how rolly it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18_MxaVX9_4&list=PLABK4dIZJqprEnLwLw-IeZLGqg6NfgpHl&index=3

It also hasn't really oversteered. The mi16 i have on the other hand oversteers whenever it gets the change and it's quite addictive especially on dirt and the power it has is much better than the si and it would be good to combine them both into one car. The mi16 is the only reason I want to have more power in the 205.
 
apitiser said:
I'm pretty familiar with how the car handles now. I haven't really had much experience with 205's either. it has mainly been Codmans si and my own one. I have put a video in of my car at the last motorkhana I was at. you can see how rolly it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18_MxaVX9_4&list=PLABK4dIZJqprEnLwLw-IeZLGqg6NfgpHl&index=3

It also hasn't really oversteered. The mi16 i have on the other hand oversteers whenever it gets the change and it's quite addictive especially on dirt and the power it has is much better than the si and it would be good to combine them both into one car. The mi16 is the only reason I want to have more power in the 205.
Click to expand...

That looks like a ball of fun! Your car still looks quite composed and doesn't want to let go. If you are staging this, upgrade the rear before stiffening the front.
 
All that's been mentioned is good advice. Ditch the si front end. Gti front end is much better design for what you want and well worth the effort. You could use all of the si strut gear with Gti springs. Get gti springs reset if you looking to lower it and maybe upgrade the struts. When running Gti front end in si body you'll need to alter front brake hose mounts.

Rear can be as simple as an upgraded arb as im pretty sure torsion bars are similar size between si and Gti. Si beams are usually pretty good condition wise and drum brakes do the job. Alternatively fit complete 306 arms inc disc brakes into si beam. That will require matching handbrake cables and in line gti compensators.

You will be surprised how much quicker the car feels with just the gti suspension upgrade.

With a 4.4 final drive it will only get better. Add to this some decent wheels and tyres, decent exhaust, and cold air induction makes a fun car.

I've added a 2" straight thru exhaust to my si and believe it's made a noticeable difference. Definitely more willing in the top end. It's got a 18" spiral would resonator and staintune rear muffler.

After all this the only thing my car lacks is acceleration in low rev range.

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/technical-performance/129476-205-motorcycle-exhaust.html

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/peugeot-forum/129344-205-gti-torsion-bars.html
 
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