205 si mods

S

ss-rotel

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Fellow Frogger
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Dec 15, 2003
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i've recently bought a l8 '92 205 si, and want MORE POWER!!

(as you do)

was thinking about a small, (read from a 4AGZE), roots type s/charger, (been told the car's in very good conditon through out), and maybe retaining the single-point injection, but i know nothing about the ECU in this car, and am asuming that it's a bugger it re-map/intercept.

Dont want a huge performance in crease, just want it to feel a little bit more urgent.

i have had some experience with EMS equipment, al be it limited, and mates have setup haltech ecu in their mr2 turbo, so i can get hep there.

wat info can you give me/sites send me to the can give me hints on how to map/intercept, or ecu's to use.

any sujestions?? would it be easier to drop an mi16 engine and run side drafts, (been told thats a popular option). is it hard to find/fit this engine in aust, (read brisbane metro area)

and brakes... doesnt stop like i'm used to, (light jap cars...). what can i do about it, short of brembos? ;)

all my knowledge is of jap car mods. after driving the car for the last 6 weeks, i know this isnt a jap car, and am treating it as somethig new, and feel a little out of my depth. help?
 
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Simple.


Sell the Si and buy a REAL GTi. Other wise u're gonna end up like Darren who's trying to set the world on fire with 2 litres on Nitro.
 
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Surely you can make the Gti inlet manifold fit, and give it multi-point injection. Pull the head off and increase the compression as well. But you are better off buying a Gti as the suspension is the best bit.
 
been told i've got a good car, and only paid 6k for it..i hought it was prety good for only 117,000 ks. @ the tim, it fited my budget

*shrugg* ('sides... i've been looking for a 205 GTi, 1/2 heartedly for the last 4 yrs....)

... is there major differences with the engine? i thought it was pretty much just the head, compresion ratio and the multi point. I dont mind getting my hands dirty, and love ro learn new things. was bought as a project car anyway... live in brissy, and not too sure wat the pug scene is like, or were it's at.... need to sit and talk to some with ideas to work out plan of attack is guess...

but like i said b4... need to make it stop. handles awesome, with a meager amount of grip, considering the stock 13inch chesse cutters... but it just wont stop like id' like it to... what can i do??? i know thatt brake upgrades, (from experience), can be $$$, and can chew up funds if not done right... so i need guidence.

is there an easy reardisc upgrade? can i upgrade the mastr cylinder to give it a force? would a cylider brace be worth the effort???

so much i wanna do, but am so apprihencive... wife... house.... need justification *sigh*

... dont think i'm going to stay atmo thou... wanna show the v8 nobs and rice bois at work that there's some better out there
 
You are better off to start with a GTi but then someone said it is good to be different :roflmao: The brakes on 205's have been covered a fair bit on this forum do a search and have a read, basically upgraded pads (eg: EBC Greenstuff) and slotted or drilled or both discs will make a big difference uprated brake fluid will help and braided lines will give a firmer pedal feel. On a FWD car there is no real need to upgrade the rear brakes as they do very little work. As for the engine you could do a Gti conversion or try to get a hold of a 406 turbo engine from the UK and pop that in, or do a mild supercharger/turbo conversion on the exisiting engine, Si's were the shopping equilavent of the GTi and therefore things likes brakes, suspension etc were developed with comfort of getting of Joe Blow from A to B. So any increase in performance will need consideration of the suspension and braking and how they will handle the increase. If you go ahead you would have a real street sleeper on your hands but it might be best to keep it a stocker and find something else to tinker with. In the Brizzy area there is Nick, you can contact through his web site at www.pugaction.com for some infor on parts.
 
ss-rotel said:
been told i've got a good car, and only paid 6k for it..i hought it was prety good for only 117,000 ks. @ the tim, it fited my budget

*shrugg* ('sides... i've been looking for a 205 GTi, 1/2 heartedly for the last 4 yrs....)

... is there major differences with the engine? i thought it was pretty much just the head, compresion ratio and the multi point. I dont mind getting my hands dirty, and love ro learn new things. was bought as a project car anyway... live in brissy, and not too sure wat the pug scene is like, or were it's at.... need to sit and talk to some with ideas to work out plan of attack is guess...

but like i said b4... need to make it stop. handles awesome, with a meager amount of grip, considering the stock 13inch chesse cutters... but it just wont stop like id' like it to... what can i do??? i know thatt brake upgrades, (from experience), can be $$$, and can chew up funds if not done right... so i need guidence.

is there an easy reardisc upgrade? can i upgrade the mastr cylinder to give it a force? would a cylider brace be worth the effort???

so much i wanna do, but am so apprihencive... wife... house.... need justification *sigh*

... dont think i'm going to stay atmo thou... wanna show the v8 nobs and rice bois at work that there's some better out there
Click to expand...

Hi,

Sorry you are starting with the wrong car! Go buy a nice GTi series two for say 7-8 grand and start from there. Anythin you do to the Si the GTi already has.

Cheers Nick
 
I have to disagree with the comments about the SI, unless you are about to use the car on the track the SI handling will be more than adequate and
certainly a lot better than the GTI on any surface less than perfectly smooth.
I have owned a 1987 GTI and my present SI and the SI is by far the more satisfying car to drive. This is due in part to the rear suspension having some
compliance. Another nice feature is that is perfectly quiet at speed.
I find the engine goes very well, the harder you rev it the better
it goes, there is no drop off in power at 7000. Additionly it uses no oil at 210000km! My GTI was using a litre per 1000 at 80k.
I think a 1.6 206 engine would make a good conversion, more power and torque than a series 1 GTI.
In a recent khanacross (35 entries) the only car to beat the 205 SI
was a turbo Nissan Pulsar.
Hang in there, even if you do want to change the suspension it shouldn't be a hard job, the important thing is that you've got a car in good condition.

Graham Wallis
 
ss-rotel,

You will have a hard time making the SI ultimately handle as well as the GTI as the front suspension setup (subframe/suspension arms, locating arms, struts) on the SI is different (think mk1/2 escort front end) and is less rigid than the GTI.

The 1.9 in the aus GTI is essentially a stroked and tweaked version of the 1.6 you already have so alot of the 1.9 parts will fit on the 1.6, like the inlet manifold warwick has already mentioned......regarding turbos and superchargers, you will likely have all the same space and heat issues a GTI has with it's 1.9 (ie lots)......
The 1.6 should respond very nicely to some headwork and a cam etc (ie Euro 1.6gti spec)

I understand what you mean about having a good SI....lots of GTIs are starting to get a bit ratty these days......

The question you need to ask yourself is if, after bolting the front end of a GTI under your SI (suspension/brakes), tweak the engine to say Euro 1.6gti spec (which is pretty decent), change the rear torsion bars to GTI items, change the wheels to roughly GTI sizes.......are you really any better off doing all of this to an SI rather than just getting a GTI?

Maybe a wrecked GTI would be a good call? , transplant the bits you need?

Me?, I'd probably keep the SI as it is, comfy lil runabout that handles and rides better than alot of it's age/class...........then again, I already have a GTI :D
 
DTwo said:
ss-rotel,

You will have a hard time making the SI ultimately handle as well as the GTI as the front suspension setup (subframe/suspension arms, locating arms, struts) on the SI is different (think mk1/2 escort front end) and is less rigid than the GTI.

The 1.9 in the aus GTI is essentially a stroked and tweaked version of the 1.6 you already have so alot of the 1.9 parts will fit on the 1.6, like the inlet manifold warwick has already mentioned......regarding turbos and superchargers, you will likely have all the same space and heat issues a GTI has with it's 1.9 (ie lots)......
The 1.6 should respond very nicely to some headwork and a cam etc (ie Euro 1.6gti spec)

I understand what you mean about having a good SI....lots of GTIs are starting to get a bit ratty these days......

The question you need to ask yourself is if, after bolting the front end of a GTI under your SI (suspension/brakes), tweak the engine to say Euro 1.6gti spec (which is pretty decent), change the rear torsion bars to GTI items, change the wheels to roughly GTI sizes.......are you really any better off doing all of this to an SI rather than just getting a GTI?

Maybe a wrecked GTI would be a good call? , transplant the bits you need?

Me?, I'd probably keep the SI as it is, comfy lil runabout that handles and rides better than alot of it's age/class...........then again, I already have a GTI :D
Click to expand...


Maybe the front suspension is not as rigid as the GTI but it is
certainly more rigid than most and not noticeably different to the
GTI. It is the rear suspension which is a lot softer.
Brakes will be fine with decent pads. The brakes are bigger than the
standard Datsun 1600 brakes which historic rally competitors are
compelled to use and these stand up to very hard use with highly
modified engines as long as premium pads are used.
Since fitting 405 14 inch steel wheels with 175 by 60 Yokohama
539s to my SI I actually prefer the appearance to the GTI, it has a
much cleaner appearance, particularly in silver, but I would prefer
the GTI flat bonnet.

Graham Wallis
 
Jumping out of my old man's Si and into my GTi is like driving my Gti with a blown cylinder....

Drive the Si and save u're dollars untill u can trade the Si and buy a GTi and then u'll have a great base in which to work on. Once u get the Gti then u can think of stiffer springs, cold air set up, head work and cam. All these put a smile on u're face.
 
yeah yeah i know the GTi is a better car, but that wasnt what i was asking. i was asking for guidance on what i have. i have a decent knowledge of japanesse cars, setting up for hi-po road use, and the fundementals are pretty much the same.

Honestly, for it's state of tune, i haven't driven anything better. I'm happy now, but it's never enuf :p

EVERYTHING can be improved upon, and this is a daily driver, not a track car, and if it comes off the road, it'll be into rally anyway.

i'm not dissing, and i'll probly just tidy it up a little, up the compression and tidy up the ports, cams, and sell it to my sister wen she's 17. (she loves it, she wanted a mini till i bought this *grin*)

From my original post, to get a s/charger complied i'll need to get rear disc brakes, and it'll probly be more trouble then it's worth

dont know... i guess it all comes down to what my lovely wife will let me spend, and what i can do without her cottoning on :roflmao:
 
hi...
the other thing to consider is how much weaker the si is compared to the GTi....
somebody recently mentioned that the gti is much stronger front end due to the 405 motor being dropped in....
the reason i mention this is the little gti does suffer some nasty consequences throughout the rest of its body because of its 1.9 litre powerplant....and those contemplating modding a gti have to be aware of further stressing some of the weak structural points.....
This would then be a greater consideration on the Si, i assume.....

my advice....keep it well serviced, look after it and enjoy what it has to offer as is....maybe a break upgrade and some good tyres and wheels....
If u want to build a fast car.....then start with one thats already reasonably quick.....HELL even the gti has been slipping in this regard.....a well driven (new)
corrolla might beat it let alone an si....


cheers
dino
 
I used to drive an SI and the one thing i would recommend would be stiffer/thicker anti roll bars.
:2cents:
 
dino said:
hi...
the other thing to consider is how much weaker the si is compared to the GTi....
somebody recently mentioned that the gti is much stronger front end due to the 405 motor being dropped in....
the reason i mention this is the little gti does suffer some nasty consequences throughout the rest of its body because of its 1.9 litre powerplant....and those contemplating modding a gti have to be aware of further stressing some of the weak structural points.....
This would then be a greater consideration on the Si, i assume.....

my advice....keep it well serviced, look after it and enjoy what it has to offer as is....maybe a break upgrade and some good tyres and wheels....
If u want to build a fast car.....then start with one thats already reasonably quick.....HELL even the gti has been slipping in this regard.....a well driven (new)
corrolla might beat it let alone an si....


cheers
dino
Click to expand...

I think the SI should stand up better as it doesn't have the same
shock loads fed in via the suspension.
If as you say, you would be using the car off the bitumen than the SI is preferable, the GTI is useless under these conditions. Driving the 87 GTI
my hands would tingle after a short stretch of gravel.
The performance figures (acceleration) for the SI were similar to
the Series 1 MI16, are you sure that yours is running properly?

Graham Wallis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dino
hi...
the other thing to consider is how much weaker the si is compared to the GTi....
somebody recently mentioned that the gti is much stronger front end due to the 405 motor being dropped in....
the reason i mention this is the little gti does suffer some nasty consequences throughout the rest of its body because of its 1.9 litre powerplant....and those contemplating modding a gti have to be aware of further stressing some of the weak structural points.....
This would then be a greater consideration on the Si, i assume.....
my advice....keep it well serviced, look after it and enjoy what it has to offer as is....maybe a break upgrade and some good tyres and wheels....
If u want to build a fast car.....then start with one thats already reasonably quick.....HELL even the gti has been slipping in this regard.....a well driven (new)
corrolla might beat it let alone an si....
cheers
dino

I think the SI should stand up better as it doesn't have the same
shock loads fed in via the suspension.
If as you say, you would be using the car off the bitumen than the SI is preferable, the GTI is useless under these conditions. Driving the 87 GTI
my hands would tingle after a short stretch of gravel.
The performance figures (acceleration) for the SI were similar to
the Series 1 MI16, are you sure that yours is running properly?
Graham Wallis


What "exactly" does your reply have to do with the fact that you have quoted me....considering i was reffering to ENGINE output and its affects on cars structural integrity.....YEAH yeah i know the stiffer suspension has an impact to 205s Gti body.....but since the original post was about engine performance and not about suspension...i fail to see the relevance....and then there is the "are you sure that yours is running properly?" question.....whats all that about???


cheers
dino
 
Your not gonna set the world on fire with a 1.6... and if u're gonna sell it (eventually) to your sister as previously posted i wouldn't throw money at hotting it up.
 
[

What "exactly" does your reply have to do with the fact that you have
quoted me....considering i was reffering to ENGINE output and its affects on cars structural integrity.....YEAH yeah i know the stiffer suspension has an impact to 205s Gti body.....but since the original post was about engine performance and not about suspension...i fail to see the relevance....and then there is the "are you sure that yours is running properly?" question.....whats all that about???


cheers
dino[/QUOTE]


Dino
You were referring to body stress, I don't see how extra engine power would affect this. The fearsome wheel tramp that GTIs get at times (on broken surfaces) is more down to the suspension than the extra power.

The comment about running properly referred to another posting about
the SI where the SI was described as having good torque but didn't rev. Nothing like mine, sorry to confuse you there!

Graham Wallis
 
GRAHAM WALLIS said:
Dino
You were referring to body stress, I don't see how extra engine power would affect this. The fearsome wheel tramp that GTIs get at times (on broken surfaces) is more down to the suspension than the extra power.

Graham Wallis
Click to expand...
I've been in both very stiff and softly sprung cars that tramp very badly......to me, tramp isn't something that can be solely linked to how firmly a car is sprung

Don't you think a combination of tyres/gip and torque have an impact on tramp?.......Or you are suggesting the suspension is better in the SI because it doesn't actually allow the front tyres to lose grip as often on rougher corners?.....ie less traction loss, less tramp

In previous car lives, when going from skinny standard wheels/tyres to things that actually grip, I've noticed a dramatic increase in tramp.....ie the more grip, the more violent the loss of it :D

The 1.6 is likely to break traction less often than the 1.9, and then when it does, the standard size and profile wheels/tyres are likely to offer less grip than the GTI spec.....ie more grip, more tramp

I guess the flex and movement in the SI suspension would smooth it out a bit.....

To be honest, I never thought the GTI was all that bad in this regard.....though it's certainly more of a handfull in the non-PS cars than PS
 
DTwo said:
I've been in both very stiff and softly sprung cars that tramp very badly......to me, tramp isn't something that can be solely linked to how

Its probably because the wheels don't follow the surface irregularities.
I found my GTI unusable for grass motorkhanas (the main reason I had
bought it), it was just too hard on the car. At a motorkhana recently I
noticed that a Clio Sport had the same problem.
I must say, however, that in those days you couldn't buy any
aftermarket shockers, a set of good gas units may have made all the difference.

The thing with the GTI is that it is set up for a specific purpose, high speed on smooth bitumen, and this is both its strength and weakness.

Graham Wallis
Click to expand...
 
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