205 Handling? Whats good???

[cam85]

Hey guys,
Wondering how you make a 205 handle better. I know they handle great as they are but what are a few more thing you can do to make it just that little bit faster round the twisties. I have Koni's with Eibach springs now. Is there anything i can do to improve it, without breaking the bank??
Cam

 

[matt205]

Hey guys,
Wondering how you make a 205 handle better. I know they handle great as they are but what are a few more thing you can do to make it just that little bit faster round the twisties. I have Koni's with Eibach springs now. Is there anything i can do to improve it, without breaking the bank??
Cam

Dunlop D0-1's Really a good performance tyre will make all the difference, what tyres are you running now?

 

[PeterT]

Hey guys,
Wondering how you make a 205 handle better. I know they handle great as they are but what are a few more thing you can do to make it just that little bit faster round the twisties. I have Koni's with Eibach springs now. Is there anything i can do to improve it, without breaking the bank??
Cam

Torsion bars. I've got some 21mm bars I may wish to sell in the future when I upgrade. Std. GTi are 19mm. Roll stiffness is to the 4th power, so 21 is a big step up from 19mm. Keep in touch.

eg.
19^4 = 130321
21^4 = 194481

49% stiffer.

You should do the bars before the front springs.

 

[tekkie]

How many kms has your car done?
since the 205's have been around for a while I would suggest a decent overhaul of all mojor suspension components will do wonders to how the 205 feels.
Neophrene bushes on all pivot points, swaybar bushes, new tie rod end bushes, cross member bushes etc. Follow it up with a decent 4wheel alignment to make sure everythinkg sits where it should and possibly drop Ray a line about a new set of Koni shocks.
As Peter said larger swaybar on the rear will help... it just scares me what he is planning in his track pug ! That thing already handles quite ok.

 

[PeterT]

As Peter said larger swaybar on the rear will help... it just scares me what he is planning in his track pug ! That thing already handles quite ok.

Not the sway bar. The torsion bars.
Just more brakes Tekkie (and a little bit more hp)! How's the head work progressing?

 

[Luca]

BIG torsion bars!!! nice one Peter.....

If you've got Koni's with Eibach springs and still need 2 brake for corners then i'm a bit surprised.

 

[cam85]

Dunlop D0-1's Really a good performance tyre will make all the difference, what tyres are you running now?

Im running Pirelli P5000 at the moment.

 

[cam85]

How many kms has your car done?
since the 205's have been around for a while I would suggest a decent overhaul of all mojor suspension components will do wonders to how the 205 feels.
Neophrene bushes on all pivot points, swaybar bushes, new tie rod end bushes, cross member bushes etc. Follow it up with a decent 4wheel alignment to make sure everythinkg sits where it should and possibly drop Ray a line about a new set of Koni shocks.
As Peter said larger swaybar on the rear will help... it just scares me what he is planning in his track pug ! That thing already handles quite ok.

Its an s3 93model and has done 186 606. Yeah im starting to feel slight knocks comeing from the front somewhere when im going over bumpy stuff. How much am i looking at for all this to be done. Or how much would all the parts cost and can i do most of the stuff myself.

 

[Luca]

A knocking sound when u accelerate and decellerate?

 

[pugsy]

Tyres make a world of difference check out the 195/55/15 tyre thread heaps of good info there, I currently have Michelin Pilot MXV3A and they will be replaced by Michelin Pilot Primacy if they are ever avaiable been waiting 3 weeks, silly holiday season, uprating the torsion bars will probably make the ride very harsh for road use the rear end crashes about enough in standard form, PeterT just likes to go warp speed on race tracks :roflmao:

 

[PeterT]

PeterT just likes to go warp speed on race tracks :roflmao:

He did ask how to make a GTi handle better! Torsion bars + LSD + D01's and you'll be going around corners better than 99% of the cars on the road.

 

[GTI124]

Tyres make a world of difference check out the 195/55/15 tyre thread heaps of good info there, I currently have Michelin Pilot MXV3A and they will be replaced by Michelin Pilot Primacy if they are ever avaiable been waiting 3 weeks, silly holiday season, uprating the torsion bars will probably make the ride very harsh for road use the rear end crashes about enough in standard form, PeterT just likes to go warp speed on race tracks :roflmao:

Can I ask why you're running Pilot Primacy? I'd say they would be only marginally better than the MXV3A. Can you get Precedas in your size? I thought the S3 ran 195/55R15s as well.

 

[matt205]

The key is really to work out what you want. Is outright handling the key? If so torsion bars, perhaps firmer front sprints and sway bar and R spec tyres are the key. This will work well on a race track, as both Peter and I can attest. This will however turn in it into a bit of a Pig as an everday drive.

I actaully have the best of both worlds having a Road and Race 205. My road 205 HAD Koni's, Jamex springs, standard rear bar an AP diff and R spec rubber, this was while I was doing Sprints and Hillclimbs in it before getting my race car. Very few road cars would get near it in corners including Rex's but it was not exactly pleasant to drive on roughish roads. That car now has factory shocks all round, and I run Pirelli P7000's. Certainly doesn't quite handle like it used to, but still better than probaly 95% of cars on the road.

If it was me I'd go with some good R spec rubber probably Falken Azenis, these are good compromise between wear, wet handling and performance. The D01's will outperform them but will wear quiclker and can be a little dodgy in the wet. I beleive this wold gain you as much as going from standard shocks to Koni's. Next I would look at an Slip/torque biasing Diff, this will give you similar jump in performance. At this level I think you'll be satisified, it'll still be relatively civilised to drive and have more grip than most things on the road.

Before any of this I would highly reccomend getting yourself along to some advanced driver training (if you haven't already done so). You'd be surprised how much the handling will improve just by driving it right! I am not having a dig at you skills as a driver but this is most often the most common missing factor in a cars performance.

 

[matt205]

Oh yeah, forgot, the ideal size tyre is 195/50/15, standard was 185/55/15. 195/55/15 was stanbdard on the S16......

 

[matt205]

possibly drop Ray a line about a new set of Koni shocks.

Your existing Koni's can be rebuilt/revalved and will be as new. Cheaper than forking out for new set.

 

[Luca]

Cam in your previous post u mentioned that there was a knocking noise present over bumps.. does this happen when u accalerate and decellerate in first or second?? b/c if it does then u're diff might be stuffed and that's taking away from the potential handling u're car might have!

 

[cam85]

Cam in your previous post u mentioned that there was a knocking noise present over bumps.. does this happen when u accalerate and decellerate in first or second?? b/c if it does then u're diff might be stuffed and that's taking away from the potential handling u're car might have!

Well it really happens the worst when im in 1st or 2nd going round bumpy corners round my house. Like 90 degree street turns just doing like 20kph or so. It kinda feels like the whole front end is moving up and down together. Not as one but like one side up and the other down and so on. Im getting it looked at real soon. Who do you guys reckomend. I live in the Sydney area. (bowral actually) I think ill end up getting new tyers and getting the shocks re cond. Its stiff enough now. Also the front has been lowerd 30 mm but the back is still standard. Im getting the back done 30mm in the next week or so, but would this impeed the handling?
Cheers for all your help guys.
(ps im only 18 havent done a huge amount of driving but would love to do a few driving courses. Where are the best ones?)

 

[pugrambo]

Well it really happens the worst when im in 1st or 2nd going round bumpy corners round my house. Like 90 degree street turns just doing like 20kph or so. It kinda feels like the whole front end is moving up and down together. Not as one but like one side up and the other down and so on. Im getting it looked at real soon. Who do you guys reckomend. I live in the Sydney area. (bowral actually) I think ill end up getting new tyers and getting the shocks re cond. Its stiff enough now. Also the front has been lowerd 30 mm but the back is still standard. Im getting the back done 30mm in the next week or so, but would this impeed the handling?
Cheers for all your help guys.
(ps im only 18 havent done a huge amount of driving but would love to do a few driving courses. Where are the best ones?)

there should be some good places that people can let you know of in sydney for front end and suspension
as for driving courses give ian luff a call and book yourself in with his crew for a few stages
you'll love every minute of it and it's only just up the road from you at oran park

 

[tekkie]

With Luffy course 1 and 3 you will do the basic course followed by the Oran Park day course where you will learn about taking apexes correctly, following the race line and general high speed track day stuff. Very entertaining. It may put your car under some stress though so make sure the car is ready for it (brakes, oil, water, general tune, tyre pressure etc).
Course 2 is advanced handling course on a skid pan.

Going back to your car... The tyres like DO1J will also put a lot more stress on other components on your car as they grip a lot harder than normal tyres. So if your bushes etc are a bit worn expect them to wear a hell of alot quicker, same goes for bearings and the load carrying components specially around corners. Likewise doing quick takeoffs will put more strain on your gearbox/clutch as the tyres will not slip.
But the fun factor will have a grin on your face.

 

[pugsy]

Hey GTI124, you might already know that the MXV3A are not longer being made and are replaced by the Primacy according to Bob Jane, i can get the Preceda in my size but is it worth the extra $25 a tyre, the guy at Bob Janes does'nt think so.

The S3 orginally had 185/55, and when I got the car it had 195/55, is there a difference in ride if you go to 50 series tyres!