205 GTi6 Project

[amcc]

Well it has been a while since I have been active on the forum and almost as long since I played with the pugs..

The Project:
A road going 205 GTi6, the 205 is a 87 GTi with S3 engine+ driveshafts + brakes + BE3 box (405 I think) + S3 interior. The 306 was a 98 model (aluminium intake manifold).

205 GTi6 coolant hose kit from Baker BM :http://www.bakerbm.com/205.php?data=schkitgti6205

I found some useful wiring info which will help : http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=114881&&page=2

I will deal with exhaust / intake / cam cover clearance issues as they come up as they seem to vary from installation to installation and I want to keep things as standard as possible.


History:
I originally owned the 205 about 7 years ago before fitting the S3 engine, shell and engine were purchased from Matt B. from Sydney who was / is an AF member. Car was sold to a family friend and now AF member, it then blew its lid a couple of years ago and came back into my possession. Once complete I plan to giveback to said member...

The 306GTi6 was my fathers, he was T-Boned and we bought the car back at the damaged vehicle auctions.

Questions:
Can the 6 speed box be used in a 205 or is the amount of steering lock lost not practical in a road car?
Has anyone legally done this conversion? ie got a engineers cert + compliance plate? If so is a brake upgrade required? (it already has the S3 brakes so going to 306 / 307 is easy enough..)

Progress so far (yesterday):
- did cam belt + water pump + idlers + seals on the GTi6 engine
- ready to remove engine from 205, it is hanging by two top engine mounts with bumper + sub frame out of the way

Will post link to the for sale add for this engine here

Photos below,
1- engine + vehicle poised to be joined 2- the very handy mobile tools 3- current state 4- this was the car 8 years ago as this engine was going in!

 

[Isis]

As your car is a 1987 model, it is more than 25 years old and therefore is eligible for a club permit if you join a registered car club. I joined PIARC, after which I had my car deemed 'safe for the road' by one of their designated officials, which is different from what you need for a full registration. This official may still want to see an engineering certificate for certain things but the bar is definitely lower. This all works if you are happy to only drive your car up to 90 days per year and fill in the logbook each time you do it. It will also only cost you $60 a year instead of 700 - for basic registration. Good luck with the transplant.

 

[SilverGTi_6]

Best of luck mate. Great fun and you'll love it once you get behind the wheel!

I wouldn't bother with the 6 speed, but you may be able to find some advice on the UK 205 GTi forum as tow whether it is workable.

Cheers
Ben

 

[gezza]

Subscribed

 

[cam85]

Dont bother with the 6 speed. Its a nice thought but in reality its terrible on roundabouts and hard right turns. Even worse than a 306. The 205 is light and the extra grunt does not really warrant needing shorter gears, and the difference in the revs at 110kph vs a MI16 gearbox are about 500rpm so you dont actually gain much. Its not geared like a 5 speed with another gear if that makes sense, its more gears in between.

Not sure about compliance in VIC.



Dont get too hung up about the brakes. THe standard items are really good ( the S3 you have that is ) with a good pad. Unless you start getting fade with these its pointless for the road. The next step would be 266mm 306/206 brakes. They are a little bigger and not much heavier. The 307/GTI6 brakes are anchors.

Work out what BE3 you have. If its the MI16 box, its a good compromise for a street car. Otherwise, grab a 4.4 diff from an MI16 box and fit it to the S3 Be3. Makes for quick progress!

I, along with a few others, have done a few of these conversions now. You will need to angle the Exhaust somehow. EIther using a Wedge plate, Cut the manifold and re weld it, or extend the lower fork about 8-10 mm these will also get the manifold to mate upto the 205 downpipe. Lots of people harp on about tilting the motor because of oil starvation etc. Its just like driving up a slight hill and the driveshafts dont groan either. A mate has had his now for 40 000ks like this and its been fine.

In regards to the MC clearence. You will need to either lower the engine with a VT mount ( top mount ) thats machined down ( about 15mm). And also may require the MC to be tilted up and over. Ive been using a template made up to angle the whole pedal box. Im still working on getting it flush. THeres a few ways around it but have a look over on the 205drivers uk site as there is loads of conversions done there. As you have worked out, some cars are different than others. Mine have all required modification to fit.

BBM piping kit is great. As is the thermo adaptor. Get some solid rear beam mounts while your at it.


Good luck!

 

[SilverGTi_6]

Does 'Magic' still make engine mounts? I used these and didnt have any issues with exhaust clearance (ie no need to tilt). EDIT: That said, I had the downpipe welded to a different exhaust. No clearance issues with headers though.

The MI16 box is definitely the way to go. Used the original 205 box and diff with the Mi16 conversion first and found the gears to be too long. GTi6 donk with MI16 box was perfect

 

[amcc]

Well its been a while again.

Started fiddling again yesterday and came across a few questions.

1- Speed sensor, assuming that I simply leave this connector hanging once changed to the BE3 box

2- Which clutch type is advisable? I have a gti6 (pull type) clutch ready to go in, looks like I just need to change the clutch fork and move the bracket over from the gti6 box. So unless advised otherwise I plan to use this clutch with the BE3 box.

3- was planning to cut and weld the exhaust manifold. Has anyone come across pics of this process? What is the best place to cut? From what I had gathered over the years the idea is to cut the header off the plate. Issues could come from difficulty in grinding the new weld back to flat or if the plate bends from the uneven heat. Or is it best to just go with an angle wedge from PeterT?