205 gti

[Yiannip]

Hi just purchased a 205 gti and want to refresh suspension ie shocks ,springs bushes etc , after something that will lower and improve ,also were to purchase any suggestions would be appreciated
Thanks

 

[schlitzaugen]

Refurbishing the suspension with OEM components is probably the best improvement. A lot of money has been spent and a lot of cars have been "improved" to reach the same conclusion again and again. The factory did it right the first time.

Have a look overseas and if you're lucky you may find everything you need. If you find the original shocks new anywhere, pay whatever you have to get them. If yours don't leak, keep them.

 

[run205]

just remember Y, you wont necessarily need to lower and or replace anything
check with the detailed logbook that OBVIOUSLY came with the car first...
but assuming it hasn't been 'messed with' already, they're very well setup from factory
so have a look at and feel how everything is before assuming it needs replacing or altering
check your steering and ball joints are nice and tight
jack under subframe, wheel off, grab at 3 and 9 oclock, see if you can wobble anything
as above, the original peugeot shock absorbers both front and rear are superb,
if they aren't leaking or broken (they wont be) I'd leave them
I've never experienced or even heard of the front coil springs needing to be replaced so they're fine
some owners take off perfectly good OE ones to lower the ride height, which is (IMO) just cosmetic and no better
the rear torsion bars wont need changing either
the most likely things you may need to refresh
timing belt, tensioner, coolant pump, thermostat
ALL new fluids and filters, brake fluid, coolant, gearbox/diff, engine oil, fuelfilter, oil filter, air filter, tyre pressures check
engine mounts, Left(gearbox), Right, Lower (Rear)
front ARB bushes (where its bolted to the subframe)
front wishbone bushes (two per wishbone, one at front bolt point, one at rear)
front strut top mount bearings (maybe)
rear beam might need a refurb (should at least be checked)
replace wheel bearings when they go bang
check your brake pads/shoes (year model depending)

 

[schlitzaugen]

One area where modification might prove unavoidable is the front discs/calipers. Peugeot likes to use some idiotic five point bolts to attach them on. By now I would hazard a guess someone has already been in there and changed them to human bolts, but when I did mine, I also replaced the discs and calipers (and the M/C too) with new OEM 306 items.

Others go with bigger brakes from I think 206? whatever. I think there is too much tax to pay if you go that way with unsprung mass and for a street car, it is totally pointless.

Oher than that, if you're not racing the car you don't need modifications (and in fact you're very likely to ruin the handling rather than improve it).

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

One area where modification might prove unavoidable is the front discs/calipers. Peugeot likes to use some idiotic five point bolts to attach them on. By now I would hazard a guess someone has already been in there and changed them to human bolts, but when I did mine, I also replaced the discs and calipers (and the M/C too) with new OEM 306 items.

Others go with bigger brakes from I think 206? whatever. I think there is too much tax to pay if you go that way with unsprung mass and for a street car, it is totally pointless.

Oher than that, if you're not racing the car you don't need modifications (and in fact you're very likely to ruin the handling rather than improve it).

Yes, brakes on S1 or 2 are terrible. Fit 306 or 206 brakes. Even the original 247 mm size from a 306 will be a big improvement over the originals. Trouble is that you also need to fit Si hubs to use these later model brakes. Don't touch the shockers if original but very often they aren't, usually LIP brand which are leaking. DON"T fit Bilstein B4s. If you have after market shocks and can't source the Peugeot ones (I've never seen them available) fit Record brand.

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Use 405 S2 strut tops, the Baker ones will cause knocking, seems that with them the top hat section on the shaft ends up being very close to the metal top of the strut so even though it doesn't move much it will knock. This has happened more than once for me. Height is spot on don't lower.

 

[schlitzaugen]

Yep, sorry, I forgot about the 205Si hubs. You need those for the brake conversion otherwise your discs will be in the wrong place.

 

[run205]

Use 405 S2 strut tops, the Baker ones will cause knocking, seems that with them the top hat section on the shaft ends up being very close to the metal top of the strut so even though it doesn't move much it will knock. This has happened more than once for me. Height is spot on don't lower.

hey I noticed this but was too busy at the time to ask

this upgrade has probably been explained/discussed in the past, so apologies for my ignorance
mines an Si converted to Dturbo so has the Dturbo/GTi front end and brakes and diesel springs
chugging along great but if there's an improvement I could make its worth asking
Does the 405 just have better spec'd struts than the 205GTi ? what are the "Baker" ones referred to ?
thanks

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Baker ones hard rubber version of 205. S2 405 is an improved design. Talking about the strut tops, the actual 405 struts won’t fit a 205.

 

[flock]

Yes, brakes on S1 or 2 are terrible. Fit 306 or 206 brakes. Even the original 247 mm size from a 306 will be a big improvement over the originals. Trouble is that you also need to fit Si hubs to use these later model brakes. Don't touch the shockers if original but very often they aren't, usually LIP brand which are leaking. DON"T fit Bilstein B4s. If you have after market shocks and can't source the Peugeot ones (I've never seen them available) fit Record brand.

You only need Si hubs if you are changing the disc or going to larger 266/283. You can use Series 1/2 disc and any 247mm caliper.

I was just showing jech this today

That’s a Series 1 disc with an ATE caliper from the 306. You can tell it’s a series 1 disc because the hub face is ~10mm more than all the other discs.

I ran this setup for a while before I switched to Si hubs to eventually go to 266mm if I want.

 

[run205]

thanks graham and flock,

do the Baker ones come original on the 405 or are they aftermarket Baker BM bits ?
which parts of the 405 tops should I use, everything from the top spring cup upwards ?
(referring to the pics above do you just remove the 205 bits from D up to 70
and then install the 405 S2 bits from 3,4,70,5,6,71, up to 72) ?

cheers

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Baker ones are from Baker BM, Peugeot would not fit these as standard. You won't use one of the 205 bits, it will be obvious which one as the S2 405 ones have two bits bonded together.

 

[run205]

thanks for the advice/info Graham
hopefully I can get the 405 parts to see whats what
only just got a pack of bits from Baker and was a bit leery of the harder bushes as Im fond of the original soft ride
but if it comes recommended I'll try

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

That's why you use the S2 405 rather than the baker ones. EAI have/had? S2 tops for less than $20 each.

 

[run205]

woops sorry, totally misunderstood there
got it now
will try for the S2 405 ones

 

[flock]

Use 405 S2 strut tops, the Baker ones will cause knocking, seems that with them the top hat section on the shaft ends up being very close to the metal top of the strut so even though it doesn't move much it will knock. This has happened more than once for me. Height is spot on don't lower.

So can you use the entire 405 S2 strut top assembly on the 205 sprint and strut? Or do you just use the rubber and bearing?

Ive noticed my strut tops have a large gap and now knock on rough roads. The BakerBM top rubbers have only been in there for about 10,000kms of road use.

That’s an 8mm Allen key. A bit disappointing.

 

[run205]

no flock, you wont be using the whole 405 strut top assembly, just one part as g mentions above
I haven't run them yet so can't give any proper feedback on how they work
I've not run the BakerBM parts but sounds like you're getting exactly the problem G mentions above

was confused to begin with but graham's upgrade is :
the late model 405's (Series 2) came with an improved front strut setup
you can see there's a difference in the pics above from the S1 405 which is more like the 205
but also, the pics never show what its really like

keep your 205 strut and ditch the Baker BM donuts/rubbers,

the part you wanna order is peugeot #503726
its improved because it has two parts in one, probably eliminating movement etc
the rubber shock/donut is overmoulded onto the steel cup whereas before they were two separate bits
and as graham said, its still got the good old rubber so a nice soft ride and no knocking
reassembling the improved strut setup from bottom to top its:
locking nut - 70 in 205 pic
washer - 72
the little part above your allen key -6
strut top plate - A
** the new 405 part 503726 goes here ** (this replaces parts C and B in the 205 OE setup)
bearing - D
top coil spring cup
coil spring
etc

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Pull the 205 one apart and it will become obvious what to do. 205 and S1 405 are identical in this area. 405 Strut is otherwise different in length, lack of ARB bracket (as is Si) and method of attachment at the bottom.

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

I discovered this when I bought a 205 which behaved itself very well in the front suspension, found out later that someone had fitted the S2 parts and have used them ever since.