205 gti DFZ distributor info

[rallyedriver]

Hi all,
I'm currently rescuing a ph1 87 Aussie delivered 205 gti.
I'm wanting to replace the distributor as the current one is either broken or someone has fiddled with it previously.
I'm not too fussed about spending too much time trying to figure out whats gone wrong with it. I've already resoldered the brittle wiring & found that even fully retarded the ign timing is 39deg btdc at idle. Feels like it's time for a new unit.
Amazingly the car starts and idles ok. It's off for a respray in the new year, but I want to be on top of this distributer business as soon as it's home.
Just hoping someone can confirm some part numbers for me.
Currently fitted is a Bosch 0237009051. Is this the right dizzy for these Aussie DFZ gtis? I think I'm correct in saying I have XU9J1 so I believe it's the original part.
However I can't find a new part of this number anywhere. miamitsu parts catalog suggests 0237009074 as an alternative to the 051. I can get a 074 dizzy new from the UK so that looks like a good bet.

I just don't want to order the 074 distrubuter if it's not the correct part.

My gut is telling me the 074 should be ok (certainly can't be any worse than whats fitted)

Any confirmation on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Couple of pics attached:

 

[pontarriere]

Elecancetres are a French company specialising in auto electrics for older models. Don't know if this is any help, but this dizzie is for the XUSJ engine - might fit. You could contact them to check. Does the Bosch unit show the curve number? This Ducellier is M161E.

https://elecancetres.com/allumeurs/1015-allumeur-ducellier-525640-pour-peugeot-205-gti-m161e.html

 

[PeterT]

If the 074 dizzy is from a UK spec 1.9 it will be fine, as it will have less centrifugal advance, not more. Any difference can be rectified by a slight increase in static advance.

 

[rallyedriver]

Thanks for the replies.

I've since realised that I was mistaken about being about to source a replacement 074 dizzy. It was actually an ad for an overhaul service in the uk. I mistakenly thought they were actually selling overhauled units & had them in stock.

pontarriere, useful website, thanks. I searched for the Ducellier2525678B which is the exact unit I'm after but they don't seem to have it. They have one which has the equivalent bosch number 047/076/063 for the 1.6 engine.

PeterT, what you say is very interesting. The Uk spec 1.9 engine (XU9JA) runs a dizzy number ending in 066 (not 074) but if you think the uk motor dizzy is close enough in terms of using it in the real world...thats good enough for me. Those 0237009066 units are readily available from motortronic ebay store.

That's likely the road I'll take.

Cheers

 

[schlitzaugen]

Why not trying to chase what is wrong with yours? It's very likely possible to repair without too much effort.

 

[rallyedriver]

You're possibly right. It's just not high enough priority for me just now.
Currently stripping the car to go for paint. Body shop have requested the car be drivable as it will get moved around a bit.
My main project just now is race car prep for next year (season just finished 3 weeks ago & first event already feels around the corner on 18th Feb!)

Cheers

 

[rallyedriver]

Hi all, got my 205 back from the paintshop & it looks fantastic. Slowly progressing with piecing it back together.

Anyway I revisted the distributor issue by fitting the 066 unit I bought from Motortronic in the uk.

I fitted it & the engine wouldn't run. I removed it & compared it to the 051 I removed & it has some pretty big differences. The rotor arm position is about 40deg different & the vacuum advance diaphragm is in a different spot. It almost fouls on the coolant temp housing.

I mentioned all this to Motortronic who replied by saying the 066 & 051 are not interchangeable.
Given they don't stock the 051 they are being pretty helpful. They reckon there's a chance I can re-drill the shaft and relocate the drive gear to cam so the rotor arm will be in a better position.
Before doing this they want me to open up both the 051 & 066 dizzys and send them some pictures of the internals to compare them.

I haven't replied (yet) because the elephant in the room is I know that with the 051 distributor fitted the most retarded spark I can get is 40deg btdc. So obviously I don't want to set the 066 up the same.

Before I go any further with any of this, could someone with an Aussie 205gti (DFZ) engine please, please have a look it their distributor & confirm what Bosch part number it is?

This would make my life much easier as it will eliminate all the guess work I'm currently doing.

Cheers
Steve C

PhotoS attached of the 051 & 066 dizzy difference & one of the freshly painted car.

 

[schlitzaugen]

Nice looking car.

I think your best option now would be to pull apart the old dizzy and see what is worn. If you're lucky you might be able to transplant the shaft into the new one. Drilling the new shaft may not be that easy if it is hardened. The vacuum capsule inlet should't matter.

 

[rallyedriver]

Thanks, at the end of the day yesterday I was starting to think along the same lines. I've got very little to lose by taking apart the new 066 dizzy. I've already messed with it sufficiently that I'm past getting a refund.
The old dizzy has a lot of axial float in the shaft which isn't great.
I've now got a stack of distributor parts (as I received a box of spares with the car). I'm hoping there can be a solution here somewhere.
Though the fact still remains that the shaft on this 051 dizzy still puts the rotor arm advanced at least 30 crank degrees (or 15 cam degrees) more than it should be.

It occured to me I could also file out the adjustment slots a few mm buying me perhaps another 10deg which should get it running a bit sweeter. Not the most elegant solution though.

I still think my best hope is standing by for confirmation of the correct DFZ distrubutor part number from someone with a proper running car.
My gut feel is the 051 dizzy isn't right, nor obviously is the 066.

Photo of my dizzy jigsaw.
And reassembly of the interior going well too: retrimmed headlining in. Door & window seals next.

 

[schlitzaugen]

If you have a machine shop handy it won't be a big deal to mill a new slot in the end of the dizzy shaft exactly where you want it. Or drill a new hole for the drive dog.

Or even make a new drive dog with the pin hole moved to correct the angle. This is what I would do given that it does not involve modifying any existing parts.

 

[rallyedriver]

Good news, the car is now now running sweet as a nut.

Thanks to those who made suggestions.

What I did was pull the complete internals out of the new repro 066 unit I bought and fitted it into the original 051 housing.
It took a little fenagling as the original housing ID was smaller and the centrifugal mechanism was fouling the sides.

I've got a lathe so I just opened it up a little.

I did notice the original advance springs were offering very little in the way of resistance vs the new unit. I think that would have been contributing to my permanent advance issue.

So all's well that ends well.

I still don't understand why the new unit I purchased from motortronic didn't work. I'm left with no other explanation than it was machined incorrectly by whoever built it. Probably doesn't help that it has no identifying numbers on it. I've heard it mentioned that some vw golf utilises a similar bodied distributor to peugeot.

Anyway I'm glad I don't have to waste any more time on it & can focus on the reassembly of the interior etc.

New windscreen going in next week so should be on for a proper test drive soon