2008 407 Coupe - steering rack replacement (potential!?!)

Graydog

Graydog

Member
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
97
Location
Central Coast NSW
Following a 'pothole incident' I have been been experiencing some thunking from the front end.
After a few attempts at various venues, I have finally (and hopefully) received the first definitive cause of the issue from my dealership - RH steering rack end is worn ("buggered" was the actual terminology quoted from the mechanic). I was advised by the service reception guy that the rack end is not a replaceable part and that the whole rack has to be changed - at $6,500 + labour?????) When I got up off the floor, I said that I'd have to think about it.
Has anyone done a rack removal on a 407? From other web reading, it appears that it is a job that I could probably do myself. I'm a bit worried about one thing: whether or not the subframe has to be lowered. Some writers have stated that the replacement was achieved without touching the subframe, others have suggested it must be lowered a bit? If so, it is one aspect that I'm not confident about.
Grateful for any feedback/suggestions while I research more deeply the options for the rack itself.
 
F me is that Hiltons that’s shit no wonder nobody buys French cars anymore the Newcastle dealer isn’t any better I would need the vin to be sure on part numbers but all available. This would be a 2 hour max labour charge
 

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Thanks for that quick response. You are quite correct about the 'who' and I am going to cease dealing with them because this is the 3rd occasion with them that has been a total ClusterF! The service desk guy referred to 'rack end' and when he threw in the 'whole rack' scenario with that absurd cost, I just didn't equate that with 'tie rod end' (what I call it anyway) because I did know that they are available. That pic of the 'rack end axle' (item 3 on the Service Box schematic?) is possibly the item he was referring to?? But neither does that require a whole rack change?
Evidently the Service Desk guy doesn't know what he is talking about - he is new and/or something may have also been lost in translation from the actual mechanic but that is no excuse and, as mentioned, this is the third job where information has been either wrong, or contradictory, or absent altogether and where job times have blown out - to my my inconvenience and expense!
Thanks again for you help and clarification - I feel a lot less stressed!
FYI: VIN VF36JUHZJ21590612, RPO 11036 (prod date 26Jan 2007) Info about part no's would be helpful :)
Cheers Graham
 
There is a special tool for this type of rack end as it won't have a spanner flat. Although it bruises the metal, a large pipe wrench does the DIY job. Not all of these have a lock washer, so maybe a few drops of thread lock would add confidence. If it has had a good hit, you might also want to remove the rack piston and make sure the pad hasn't cracked - Item #2 in the diagram. Check the rack end on the other side too as they do simply wear out.
 
Thanks David....good point about both sides - it had crossed my mind too. If I'm gonna get my hands dirty for one side, may as well get 'em really dirty and do both!
• As for the piston, is that a job that can be done with the rack in-situ and how difficult is it to do? I'm a little unclear about its location/accessibility from the diagram, and will it entail PS fluid loss or other issues?
• As for the rack end axle fitment, is that a simple 'single position' fit ie no adjustment, so no impact on steering alignment?
 
Although you could carefully compare new and old parts and put an identical new part back in the same place as the original, an alignment is a good idea as it was possibly out anyway after both wear and impact. The 'piston' #2 is just a sprung pad behind the rack to keep the rack and pinion teeth in proper contact. The pad and spring are behind a cap that can be unscrewed and shouldn't involve any fluid loss. You wouldn't normally bother taking it out, but you mentioned you've had an impact and hence the suggestion to check it.
Could there be any other issue with / damage to the rack that might have led to a suggestion of complete replacement? Damaged internal rack bushes perhaps?
p.s. If that rack end has simply worn out, then there are probably other parts that are also substantially worn. A knocking noise can come from a displaced bush in the bottom of the upright for example or the control arm bushes if torn and allowing the wheel to move excessively fore/aft. Presumably these were all checked. Some parts you can't buy separately from Peugeot, so you either pay up of go aftermarket.
 
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Thanks again David. Acknowledging that as a 2008 model, she is an old girl (in years) but with a relatively young(ish) 98000 on the odo and a pretty good service record from new (I'm the 2nd owner), there is still the the chance of wear and tear, but given the debacle that was this last maintenance visit, I tend to now regard the whole rack change as a bit of a furphy coming from the front desk guy who clearly did not have much of a clue. I would have loved to speak directly with the mechanic, but that was not possible at the time.
There was no problem with the car until the pot hole incident about 6 weeks ago, so I'm inclined to just go with the rack end axle changes (and probably the tie rod ends too seeing as I'm in there)
Below is a comment I noted on my Invoice receipt:
Diagnostic carried out on vehicle
Complaint: Bumping noise in front end
Cause: Wheel speed sensor
Correction: fitted new wheel speed sensor and test drove vehicle - no noise present
This, amongst other issues alluded in a previous post above is why I have really had it with this dealer! The speed sensor change was required because my ESP/ABS warning light was showing - absolutely nothing to do with the front end bumps! Then to suggest that no noise was present?? I experienced it as I went over the driveway opening from the dealer on to the street. How that could have been missed is mystifying!
I hope that my chosen repair path is the right one....time will tell!
Cheers
 
If you want to perform some DIY diagnosis ...
Jack up (safely!) the side the noise comes from, grab the tyre at the 3 and 9 positions and see if the rack end feels loose or knocks. Someone holding the steering wheel may help.
Take off the wheel and look at the area marked yellow for a bush that is displaced, loose or pushing out a bead of rubber and evidence of contact between the B-upright and the 6-lower control arm. Look for a torn bush where circled in red, which will allow the control arm to move fore/aft and might knock if very loose.
#14 is a swivel and it can fail too.
It is possible the rack was quoted because the parts diagrams do not show the individual components as being available separately for your VIN. I'd say that's just an error and the rack ends would be no different to other models and as per the diagram in post #3.

1661670926138.png
 
Yep David, I see a little project on the horizon when I can over coming weeks. I had previously been to two other workshops for an analysis and report - one being a Peugeot specialist in Sydney - but the results were rather generic and vague. I had also done the '9 & 3' wheel check as you mentioned but I didnt detect any movement at that time. The bump noise has since become a little worse so I'll do as you suggest again and see what happens. Your comments re: the yellow and red highlights reflect others I have seen on the web - mostly in the UK - so you have cemented a plan for troubleshooting and possible DIY repair. Thanks for that!
 
driven said:
I think he was out by a fator of 10

Yes Driven, you are quite correct: certainly about the rod ends and probably about that outrageous cost! Evidently, he was talking about the rack end, the inner part of the rack. I think I now have a path to repair!
Click to expand...
 
While looking at the lower bushes, check the thunk isn't coming from the top shock absorber fixing.
The pressed in "red" bush isn't an easy home job, and you might find a complete arm with bushes fitted is an option.
I vaguely remember we had a thread on the rack ends for a C5, and I'll try to find it.

Here's a photo of the parts in David S's diagram. I can't remember if it's a 407 or non-hydraulic C5, but they are alike.
 

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seasink said:
While looking at the lower bushes, check the thunk isn't coming from the top shock absorber fixing.
The pressed in "red" bush isn't an easy home job, and you might find a complete arm with bushes fitted is an option.
I vaguely remember we had a thread on the rack ends for a C5, and I'll try to find it.

Here's a photo of the parts in David S's diagram. I can't remember if it's a 407 or non-hydraulic C5, but they are alike.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that info....something else handy to consider while troubleshooting!
 
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