1927? Renault KZ2

1

1915 type 153

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Fellow Frogger
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1928 Renault KZ2

just in case my 1915 Peugeot project should get boring I have added another probably hopeless case to the fleet.

A Renault type KZ2. 1927 I think but I don't know for sure (any help here greatly appreciated). It is partially restored by the previous owner who has had it for 20 years. he has now bought a 1928 Monasix tourer so the KZ2 is surplus to requirements and now it is mine.

Supposed mechanically restored, my aim is to get it going as is, then once I know that everything underneath is ok, give it a Boulangerie or Camionette body and finish it properly. There is a rally in early June which is the initial plan to have it going for, then once I get back from Le Mans and the 24 Hour race, pull it to bits and make it look nice...
 

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Look forward to following your progress with the Renault! Much like the earlier ones it's a very distinctive looking car both front and side on. Was following your 1915 Peugeot thread with great interest. Was this a victim of the AF crash?

Cheers John
 
Hi John

Yes, the 1915 Peugeot thread fell into the black hole. Mind you, the restoration process fell out of favour after the earthquakes and i have only recently got back into the mood for working on it. I will start adding some updates here soon, but the Renault will me moved to the top of the priority list as it isn't such a big job to get it up and running.

Cheers

Tony
 
It has begun... the Renault is home and in my shed. The loading and unloading of an immobile, brakeless vehicle wasn't as bad as I thought it might be...

Basically, I want to get it wired, plumbed and see if it goes. Supposedly it has been mechanically restored so I want to start it and drive it around the block a couple of times to see if I need to pull anything apart before I get carried away with bodywork, paint etc. Following the colours in the handbook, cotton-braided wire and lots of brass terminals have been purchased.

Issue number one... the reconditioned headlight/ignition/mag. kill switch, which is the correct one, doesn't quite tie up with the wiring diagram and I can't make any sense of the terminals on the back of it. In a couple of days I will be seeing the guy who worked on it to see if he can shed any light on the subject. Failing that the switch will be delivered to my car-restoring mate in Upper Hutt for his attention.

An order had been placed in the USA for proper red vintage radiator hose for the Renault, the Peugeot 153 and my brother's 1914 Fiat Tipo Zero. I am heading out of town for two weeks on Tuesday so hopefully that package will be waiting for me on my return.

All going well, that is all I need to make it go. Making it stop also may provide a challenge or two. The parts book appears to show the brakes operated by cables and the handbook isn't very clear. But... the car came with an assortment of brake rods, and from what I can see, there is no return spring in the rear brakes, so if they are pulled on by a cable, there is no way to release them. Either they do use rods, or there is something missing inside the drums. I haven't looked at the front yet... I turned away from that end of the car tonight after realising that the front spring shackle pins have been replaced with bolts.20140111_145542_resized.jpg20140111_151238_resized.jpg 20140110_210738_resized.jpg
 

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1915 type 153 said:
just in case my 1915 Peugeot project should get boring I have added another probably hopeless case to the fleet.

A Renault type KZ2. 1927 I think but I don't know for sure (any help here greatly appreciated). ...
Click to expand...

From a list off a web-site I can no longer find...
KZ type Roadster sports came out in 1922
1923 - 1933 KZ, KZ-1 to KZ-11
1923 - 1926 2.1 litre 20 hp
1926 Car Truck Utility
1927 KZ-1, KZ-2, KZ-3, KZ-4 (until 1930)
1930 KZ-4, KZ-5 (until 1931)
1931 KZ 5, KZ 6, KZ-8 (until 1940) Primaquatre name makes appearance, Primaquatre Torpedo (1931-1935)
1931 KZ-7 Vivaquatre, KZ-11 Vivaquatre Taxi (aka Taxi G7), KZ-5 Vivasix
1932 Primaquatre KZ-7, KZ-8, KZ-10SA. Vivaquatre KZ-6, KZ-7 (2.1 litre, 35hp), KZ-7SA, KZ-9, KZ-13. KZ-14
1933 Primaquatre KZ-10, KZ-10SA, KZ-14. Vivaquatre KZ-11 (Taxi G7), KZ-9, KZ-9SA, KZ-13
1934 KZ14, Primaquatre KZ-18, Vivaquatre KZ-11, KZ-13, KZ-17
1935 Primaquatre KZ-14, KZ-24. Vivaquatre KZ-13, KZ-23

I think you're right about 1927 for the KZ2
 
Geoff in Gully said:
From a list off a web-site I can no longer find...
KZ type Roadster sports came out in 1922
1923 - 1933 KZ, KZ-1 to KZ-11
1923 - 1926 2.1 litre 20 hp
1926 Car Truck Utility
1927 KZ-1, KZ-2, KZ-3, KZ-4 (until 1930)
1930 KZ-4, KZ-5 (until 1931)
1931 KZ 5, KZ 6, KZ-8 (until 1940) Primaquatre name makes appearance, Primaquatre Torpedo (1931-1935)
1931 KZ-7 Vivaquatre, KZ-11 Vivaquatre Taxi (aka Taxi G7), KZ-5 Vivasix
1932 Primaquatre KZ-7, KZ-8, KZ-10SA. Vivaquatre KZ-6, KZ-7 (2.1 litre, 35hp), KZ-7SA, KZ-9, KZ-13. KZ-14
1933 Primaquatre KZ-10, KZ-10SA, KZ-14. Vivaquatre KZ-11 (Taxi G7), KZ-9, KZ-9SA, KZ-13
1934 KZ14, Primaquatre KZ-18, Vivaquatre KZ-11, KZ-13, KZ-17
1935 Primaquatre KZ-14, KZ-24. Vivaquatre KZ-13, KZ-23

I think you're right about 1927 for the KZ2
Click to expand...

I am hoping that if (and it is a big IF as I can't see any evidence of it) I can find the engine number, Renault will be able to date it. The ID plate has long since vanished from the dash, all I have found as far as a number is an oval tag riveted the splash tray between the chassis and engine on the R/H side which says "KZ2 2676"
I am assuming that there will be a number stamped somewhere on the chassis, but I have no intention of stripping the whole thing to look for it!
 
I have had a reply to an e-mail I sent to the Vintage Renault club in France and they know of no KZ2s in France. It looks like I have added another orphan to my fleet...
 
Simon said:
In 1928, KZ2 production was 9,845 vehicles.
Click to expand...

Thanks Simon. That is quite a big number, odd that there are none known by the vintage Renault club in France, mine is the only one known here and there don't seem to be any in Australia either. There should be more somewhere!
 
Just a quick update... there has been progress on the KZ. Not as much as I would like but sometimes work and other commitments get in the way.After much head scratching and studying of books and diagrams I worked out that the choke and hand throttle controls on the steering column were fitted back to front. No wonder I couldn't work out how the rest of the missing linkages worked. Now that is sorted and working. The carb. and manifold are bolted up, the fuel tank removed, cleaned, gauge mechanism fitter and then the tank put back in the right place, which is about 50mm to the left of where it was, so now the tank breather actually vents back into the engine bay, not inside the cabin.The mobile exhaust guy has just come around and made and fitted a complete exhaust system. All going well, tomorrow the radiator can now go back on as there is nothing else I need to do at that end of the engine so I can move forward. Once that is done I just need to get someone brighter than me to time the magneto and I think it is tome to see if it will run.There was a small issue when I got the crank handle machined to actually fit the drive dog on the front of the dynastart and discovered that the motor wouldn't turn over. Oh shit...Out came the plugs and I emptied a can of CRC down the plug holes, left it to soak for a week then put it in top gear and rocked it back and forward. It was a relief to see the flywheel start to turn! The next issue to address will be the front hubs. The nuts on the stub axles didn't have split pins so I went to tighten them up. Oops. Brake drums now foul the back plates... something ins't right here. Sunday's job (Saturday morning is "look at brakes on new 404 time" and the afternoon a blast in the countryside for a beer in the Porsche with mates in theirs as well) is to take the front hubs off now I have found my hub-puller and see if I can work out what is missing and making the hubs slip further up the axles than is good.I just need to keep reminding myself... if this old crap was any good, our grandfathers would't have thrown them away and bought something new and better. There is a reason why they don't make 'em like this any more!
 
I thought it is about time for an update on the Renault as I take one step forward and two back!

The engine was already painted in nice shiny black when I bought it. Since then I have had the full exhaust system made, bolted the manifold on, made up carb. linkages, fitted the oil filler, dipstick/sump drain and all the other bits attached to a vintage French engine. Now I discover the bloody engine should be painted green.
So I have to disconnect the carb., remove the manifold and all the other bits attached to the block.. Then the small matter of finding the correct shade of green (which, it turns out is an awful bright lettuce shade), get some mixed and paint the engine green, then put it all back together. Again!
Hell, why would I want to do a job once when I can do it twice.

Maybe buying a partly-restored car is not such a good idea.
While I was repainting the Renault engine I decided to remove the dynastart, which has already been rebuilt but the paint was a bit scratched so it needed attention. That is a weight-lifting exercise in itself. Then, with the dynastart off, the front undertary was visible and again, the paint looked a bit crap so off it came.
Then... as I walked past the front of the car, now with undertay off, I spotted scratches in the paint on the tie rod. On closer investiagtion, the scratches on the tie-rod (which normally wouldn't have been visible) came from it hitting the bottom of the sump. Yep, if I had driven the car, the first bump it is (and this is Christchurch, so that is all the goat-tracks which pass for roads around here, consist of), it would either put a huge bend in the tie rod, or whip the front off the front of the sump.
Further investigation with a tape measure and it seems the front springs are on the wrong way around, so the front axle is sitting around 100mm too far back.
Which, with hindsight, is why when i was measuring it before getting brake cable made, there was a descrepancy of roughly that same 100mm between what the parts book said the front cables should be and the actual distance between the pivots.
This weekend's job? Front axle off, springs removed, turn them around and put them back on the right way around.

Engine, before





Engine now...





 
And now it seems the information I had was wrong, the green on the engine is incorrect, so tomorrow I will strip everything off it (again) and paint the bastard thing green (again!!!).
 
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After three tries the Renault engine is now the green I can live with. Try one, the bright lettuce green which was supposed to be right but wasn't. Try two, looked correct on the lid. Looked correct in the tin. Looked like shit on the engine. Try three, take green from attempt one. Tip some black in and stir. Keep adding black until it looks right. Much better now, engine is looking like it did in 1928.
Now we move to the front axle. Springs are out and turned around so the tie rod is no longer trying to mate with the sump. Now I need to remove the front hubs and brake drums so I can paint the drums and polish the alloy back plates. Of course this would be considerably easier if the bloody hubs would come off the stub axles. Naturally my hub puller doesn't fit so I have given up for the night before I break something.





 
There has been progress on the Ranault again as I get closer to engine start-up time. Work is well underway on the ignition system.

The car uses a RB magneto. I have seen too many vintage cars stopped on the side of the road with magneto failure, even after the owners have spent hundreds of dollars getting them reconditioned so I really don't trust them. However I like having my cars 100% authentic but they need to be reliable as well. My brother is restoring a 1914 Fiat Tipo Zero and he also wants the car to be correct but trouble free, so we have been thinking how to keep the right look but make them better.
A magneto is really just a distributor which makes it's own HT spark. Could we find a way to feed spark in to the distributor part of the magneto from a coil hidden out of sight somewhere?


Here are two magnetos. the one on the left is the one which will go in the car, the one on the right is the spare. Note the brass fitting on top of the locator peg on the magneto I am going to use









This is the magneto I am using. The magnets have been removed and replaced with a steel cover so it no longer generates any spark, but the armature has been kept to provide the inertia required for the automatic advance to work correctly









The top peg is the original. The bottom one is the new one my brother has made with the fitting for the coil lead to feed the spark to the distributor part of the mag.







It works perfectly on the bench, firing four spark plugs in a dummy cylinder head so we are confident it will work on the car. I will let you know when the motor is running!

Of course the other issue this creates is the ignition switch itself. With magneto ignition, when the key is turned to the "off" position it completes the circuit and shorts out the mag. With coil ignition, we need to break the circuit to stop the flow of current to the distributor. And of course the combined light/ignition switch has been rebuilt alreadya nd I really don't want to risk pulling it apart and trying to modify it. Something else for me to ponder, I guess!
 
I think I should have left this bit alone... The Renault engine bay is totally sealed, with a shroud around the fan which is integral with the flywheel (this is the last Renault to have the radiators behind the engine) to blow the air out under the floorboards.All of the undertrays have been removed, rubbed down and are now waiting for a walm, calm day so I can get the spraygun out and either make a terrible mess or paint them black. All that is except for the one behind the engine and under the flywheel. Like most of the running gear it was already painted black and with the raditors on it won't be visible unless you crawl under the car (or camionette or van or whatever it is when it is finished) and I have spent arond six months now, trying to convince myself it isn't worth the hassle of pulling it out to give it a another coat of black. Last week I finally weakened and took it off, knowing that if I didn't, it would piss me off for the rest of the time I own it if I didn't do it properly.
FFS what a mistake that was. The paint on the outside has not stuck to the large piece of galvanised steel used to repair it and it basically fell off. That was teh easy bit.
On the inside (the bit which just might be partially visible with the bonnet open, holy crap... Yes, it has been (roughly) painted, but on top of a nice thick coat of underseal - not the useless shit you buy now which can be removed with a fingernail, this is the proper stuff put tehre in the 60s when work was first started on it,a nd that stuff sticks better than shit to a blanket. After a tin of stripper, attacking it woth my little sandblaster, and (and I am not joking) at least eight hours with the electric drill and wire brush, it don't look too flash...

 
The sealing of the engine compartment is quite good, and when I inspected the car in Adelaide earlier this year I realised that the twin side-radiator set up isn't as silly as it seems.

I don't understand the photo though. Is the corroded semi-circular piece the bit that fits under the flywheel?
 
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