brake cylinder bleed nipples

Hmm, I noticed that lower balljoint cap with the 3 bolts .... its distorted where the bolts pull it down. Shown clearly in the photo above. What I did was get towbar tongue and with a heavy hammer tap around the edges of it. Surprisingly this flattened it back out (using a metal ruler to check it for flatness).

Now to rinse and repeat on the other side :)
 
That happens if the stack of shims is too thick, or if the upper cup is not properly seated.

Yes, bizarre all that joint slop (literally millimeters) has not only gone, but I've needed to remove a couple of shims to assemble it. All I can think possibly that taper in the balljoint is off center, so without the ball lined up with the keyway, the geometry inside the ball/cups is wrong.
 
And ... the other side top arm, the adjuster doesn't screw in as the threads are munched, that's why the slop couldn't be adjusted out before.

So my shopping list for next time this car is look at is:
-new top arm and bearing adjuster ( drivers side ), as there is no way I'm going to find that sized tap and die. Not an urgent hurry as its been like this for at least half 1/2 century ( I'm not joking, probably 50years :eek: ).
-new driveshaft woodruff keys
-new captive nut clips for the inner bearing nut

The balljoint boots i'll sew up. At least I know exactly what to do now. We could never get this apart or fix any of it in the past. So this is great progress :dance:

This shouldn't be anything to difficult to find/buy, so thats good :) I'm might even drive the car around a bit this spring. I want to pull all the brake cylinders down first and clean/check them. as the two front are full of rust when you peel the boots back (even though they work fine).

seeya,
Shane L.
 
Shane good to hear that progress is made, each problem, poor previous work, is nailed one by one. :giggle:
Some things do not change, I recall doing all that on my big 15 back in the 60s when I was just a green apprentice, and finding similar things that would not adjust/had chiseled lock nuts, butchered parts etc etc. I was lucky to come across an "old" guy (say 30 ) Sid, that gave me some parts and advice. So I got it back into some sort of usable shape as a daily driver. A very cool car to drive around in and at the car club. So people were stuffing them up even back in those days.
My advice on the brake cylinders is to pack them with brake grease putting them together and pack under the boots also to help prevent the moisture getting in and rusting them. As full as you can get. Brake grease is available every where now and not expensive. ;)
Good luck jaahn
 
Shane good to hear that progress is made, each problem, poor previous work, is nailed one by one. :giggle:
Some things do not change, I recall doing all that on my big 15 back in the 60s when I was just a green apprentice, and finding similar things that would not adjust/had chiseled lock nuts, butchered parts etc etc. I was lucky to come across an "old" guy (say 30 ) Sid, that gave me some parts and advice. So I got it back into some sort of usable shape as a daily driver. A very cool car to drive around in and at the car club. So people were stuffing them up even back in those days.
My advice on the brake cylinders is to pack them with brake grease putting them together and pack under the boots also to help prevent the moisture getting in and rusting them. As full as you can get. Brake grease is available every where now and not expensive. ;)
Good luck jaahn

Realistically these cars are just here so in 10years time I have something to play with. There is just so much going on right now, there is barely any time for general maintenance on the cars we actually drive :clown:

How on earth did you get one apart without all the special tools to repair it ??

I'm thinking the moisture comes out of the air into the vented master cylinder? From here it drops to the lowest point which is the wheel cylinders. They were all lined with stainless steel years ago when my father first re-did it (it hasn't been driven since) and always stored in a dry garage. So I was thinking it wouldn't be the cylinders themselves sucking in the moisture ?? (not sure).

What my preference would be is to convert every cars braking system to LHM ..... you will then never have an issue again. The parts wouldn't exist to do this on a traction though.
 
Hi Shane :giggle:
Sid the guy who helped me back then had been a Citroen mechanic and probably loaned me some tools, as he had built himself a pristine LT15 with a D motor. He moved to England afterwards for some years and shipped his beloved LT15 there too.
The moisture does come out of the air and indeed that shit hygroscopic brake fluid sucks it in anywhere it can, There is a Standard for flexibile hoses that covers that subject as they let it through. The wheel cylinders do allow it in past the rubbers and the gap as well as the master cylinder. That is why you should use silicon fluid and rubber grease on all the cylinders . Beats me why they continue to use standard brake fluid at all.
Jaahn
PS I had never heard or seen rubber grease till the R8 came out and i worked on them a bit. Reading the manuals they referred to special rubber grease which was recommended to use on the disc calipers when assembling them. Gees new idea and only the Renault dealers had it. Castor oil based then but it was good stuff. I have kept some since then for all brake assembly work disc or drum. I did the Traction wheel cylinders when we recod it as they were rusting from new.
 
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Hi Shane :giggle:
Sid the guy who helped me back then had been a Citroen mechanic and probably loaned me some tools, as he had built himself a pristine LT15 with a D motor. He moved to England afterwards for some years and shipped his beloved LT15 there too.
The moisture does come out of the air and indeed that shit hygroscopic brake fluid sucks it in anywhere it can, There is a Standard for flexibile hoses that covers that subject as they let it through. The wheel cylinders do allow it in past the rubbers and the gap as well as the master cylinder. That is why you should use silicon fluid and rubber grease on all the cylinders . Beats me why they continue to use standard brake fluid at all.
Jaahn
PS I had never heard or seen rubber grease till the R8 came out and i worked on them a bit. Reading the manuals they referred to special rubber grease which was recommended to use on the disc calipers when assembling them. Gees new idea and only the Renault dealers had it. Castor oil based then but it was good stuff. I have kept some since then for all brake assembly work disc or drum. I did the Traction wheel cylinders when we recod it as they were rusting from new.

I bought a tube of rubber grease years ago. It definitely natural oil of some sort as you suggest, as I think its gone rancid and stinky over time in the tube? Could we use silicon grease these days? I think silicon grease is safe with natural rubber .... :confused:
 
No problem with silicone grease if you clean out the entire system meticulously. Then instead of using LHM try dot 5 silicone brake fluid instead. Do it properly and you will never need to touch the hydraulic circuit again.
PS I have been using it for years! Available at Repco!
 
No problem with silicone grease if you clean out the entire system meticulously. Then instead of using LHM try dot 5 silicone brake fluid instead. Do it properly and you will never need to touch the hydraulic circuit again.
PS I have been using it for years! Available at Repco!
So have I installed old vehicles but not recommended with boosters or ABS systems. Assembling pistons etc. use rubber grease. Those assembling with DOT other than 5 brake fluids can have corroded pistons before ever driving! If brake fluid is outside the closed system air will get to parts & corrode.
 
Well I'll be damned .... I've been searching for the missing driveshaft woodruff key (nowhere to be found .... I've carried it off at some point to measure .... It'll turn up once replacements have arrived). For now I'll fit the drum, I'm sure its safe to move around the yard on the taper. What I did however find is a pair of top suspension arms :dance: :dance: :dance: Where on earth have they come from?? (now I think about it, I reckon my father grabbed some arms "jonf" on here years ago.

Is there any trick to identifying if these arms fit the car? I'm guessing big 15's and light 15's have different arms, is there a way to pick what I have here?
 
You make woodruff key by angling/cutting a suitable hardened washer. JG.
 
You make woodruff key by angling/cutting a suitable hardened washer. JG.

I need to order in other parts either way, so the inner bearing locking washers, the woodruff keys, the top balljoint nut ( Actually I need two of them as I'd like to make a balljoiint breaker from one). I'll need to combine postage on them all as its really expensive. We'll see, I need to see how quickly I get back to the car (so much other stuff to do before I can spend time on the traction). The "drivers" need quite a bit of work done over this xmas/new years period before I can look at the toys.

I'm pretty sure I had a list of other "small" parts I needed too. I noticed there is no exhaust bracket on the downpipe for example... Oh, brake pad retaining springs .... fiddly stuff like that.
 
Its taken me long enough .... But I've finally realised why everyone seems to happy to drive shit cars. I've always thought the 407 was woeful with crashy crappy suspension ... that sits waaaaaayyyyyy to low ... Its perspective, all perspective. We have been "sort of" looking at cars to replace the 407 for a couple of years. I've driven/been in modern mercedes, small coupe, 4 door sedans ... ( crashy ride, cramped woeful interior.... sure the red interior sttiching is nice, and they have big flashy badges ... but wow, they are the 407 but worse in everyway ). I've driven small cars, big cars .... 4wds .... And I think I'm going a bit crazy, I'd get back into boss womens 407 and think "this drives better than them .... and I've always not like it".... hmmmm.....

So she finds a small car she likes, and I actually quite like it (the poogoe rcz ). the suspension is very firm ... but hey, if she wants a "sports" car, and "sports" car is what you get. It actually drives really nicely for something modern with rock hard seats and "sports" suspension.

20221027_213758.jpg


Anyway, I jumped into the traction, jiggled the fuel pump lever .... plug the battery terminal on ... .and she fires to life right away. I sit there for a few minutes enjoying its mellow exhaust sound .... drop the ramps down and laugh at its "floating power" ... aka "springs" that are bouncing the motor all over the place trying to get the clutch out backwards (surface rust on the clutch plate no doubt and slightly grabbing rear brakes) ..... I love how heavy and insane the steering is as a do a 4 point turn to move it into the other side of the shed. I probably should sell those full length ramps to get htem out the way I guess.... I probably won't they, they'll go out into the yard with all the other junk.

20221027_213552.jpg


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Just hilarious.... these cars are known for being low, sleek and "holding the road" .... look at that. just acres of clearance above the wheels free beams. I can't get a modern poogoe on this hoist without scraping its belly down the entire length.

20221027_214615.jpg


Then I jump into the CX .... plug the battery terminal on .... This thing is always a mongrel that I think isn't going to start ... I've always thought this car has really firm suspension with tree trunk sized rollbars. I'm amazed that it fires up instantly .... smile as it lifts up ... as I back it off hte hoist I can feel it doing its side to side wiggle against the "tree trunk sized :rolleyes: :rolllaugh: " anti-rollbars .... its just insanely soft ... the seats are utterly fabulous and they cocoon around you like a big soft cushion. The clutch travel is about 1/2 inch as I let it out and we float up the drive ....... Oh yeah. now I get it big time.

All other cars are only shit, because every car I've owned since I was 16years old has been a Citroen CX ... a Citroen GS .... maybe even the odd DS ... or the "really firm" Citroen CX turbo. I've alway got the boss women much lesser vehicle with crappy not great strut suspension compared to the mighty CX ... So yeah, she had a BX19tri, Xantia and XM ..... yeah really "bad ride quality" ......


now for the last 6+ years I haven't really driven any hydraulic cars .... and to get back into them sure does open your eyes to how mind blowing they are. They really are in a world of there own. Is there a modern car that is anything like them? the C6 is now quite old, and I can't think of any other car that comes close. It doesn't look like there will every be a true replacement for the boss womens XM
 
Shane,
I know where you are coming from. I sent a contact us Email to Citroen Australia last weekend. No reply. The CA website shows
it is not possible to even BUY a new Citroen in Brisbane at this time ... I do not expect to see a C5X soon. A C5 Aircross is also a verrrry rare beast here.
It really has become a "why bother" consumer purchase, especially as the entire industry is flogging unhooded touch sensitive infotainment screens that .. behold in our one day of brilliant sunshine since February .. are unable to be seen as it cannot cope with ambient light and glare.
Black interiors are another industry wide impractability too... in OZ of all places. The heat soak is most uncomfortable if parked in the sunlight. Black leather just doesn't work in the sometimes sun drenched tropics.
It is not just the suspension/comfort that have gone backwards, it is the driver interface that has gone all digital/glossy and reflective and become totally unsuited to HUMAN contact.
I describe my sausage fingers as being "fat finger syndrome".. but dare not call it FFS ......... that acronym has a completely different meaning to the digital generation...who have known no better.
 
Shane,

So when your the CX starts, does it go whompha, whompha, whompha, brumm while the geared starter turns the motor over slowly and the AEI makes sure it has got the engine timing right before it sparks the plugs and fires the EFI to squirt?

Cheers, Ken
 
Shane,

So when your the CX starts, does it go whompha, whompha, whompha, brumm while the geared starter turns the motor over slowly and the AEI makes sure it has got the engine timing right before it sparks the plugs and fires the EFI to squirt?

Cheers, Ken

This ones a turbo 1 .... occasionally it'll crank for 5->10 seconds and you think "oh crap, we have problems" ... then for no reason at all its away. There is no consistancy to it ... it can be hot, cold, anywhere inbetween. Just switch off .... or not started for 6months.

I actually had someone visit years ago and say "Oh, you don't know the trick to start them". You let the motor crank 3 times. Let the key off, then crank it and it'll start almost instantly. Weirdly this mostly works if I do this. I'm thinking its to do with voltage drop maybe ... It appears to be normal behavior for a turbo 1. it'll either start on the 3rd crank .... or crank for ages before firing.

I have heard turbo 2's always tend to start instantly. they have a better engine management system with only the single flywheel sensor. I have however never owned a turbo II :)
 
Realistically these cars are just here so in 10years time I have something to play with. There is just so much going on right now, there is barely any time for general maintenance on the cars we actually drive :clown:

How on earth did you get one apart without all the special tools to repair it ??

I'm thinking the moisture comes out of the air into the vented master cylinder? From here it drops to the lowest point which is the wheel cylinders. They were all lined with stainless steel years ago when my father first re-did it (it hasn't been driven since) and always stored in a dry garage. So I was thinking it wouldn't be the cylinders themselves sucking in the moisture ?? (not sure).

What my preference would be is to convert every cars braking system to LHM ..... you will then never have an issue again. The parts wouldn't exist to do this on a traction though.
I've been using silicone brake fluid now for a good 30 years on my two Renaults. As long as you don't aerate it when filling up, it is fantastic. I pulled my 4CV brakes apart (for an upgrade) and after 25 years everything was like new. Trouble is, standard brake fluid is hygroscopic so the moisture is absorbed right at the wheel cylinder seals. You can flush them all you like every couple of years, but the moist fluid is not shifted right at the seal, so the rusting continues. At least that's what I think and the condition of my cylinders after 25 years of use seems to bear this out. I guess LHM would be just the same, as 2CVs suggest!

Beware though. Silicone fluid is Dot 5.0. There is also Dot 5.1 and it is NOT silicone, despite young blokes in brake specialist places saying it is the same. Just read the label.
 
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