Bringing a 404 back from the brink

I've been through a process the last couple of days. First I managed to clean the fuel tank with oxalic acid and then a lot of high pressure washing. It isn't pristine but there's no loose stuff anymore and I'm happy to run it like that.
So after hooking it up I managed to get it kind of running but it was really bad.
Last night I rebuilt the carby and this morning I tried again.
It would start for a moment and then die. Then the starter went bad and would spin but not kick in.
I removed that and dismantled it , cleaned and reassembled and now it works again. Don't you love old technology?
Still it would only start for a moment. Then I rummaged through my old pile of stuff and found an old coil, as the one I was trying to use was a 505 one which I knew was wrong but I thought it would work. Wrong! The old simple one was what it needed and with that fitted she went Brooooom. Still won't rev which is understandable as the vacuum advance doesn't work and with the timing light on number one the light is intermittent, and there's missing all over the place. So tomorrow it's new plugs and leads, a working vacuum unit and a timing job. Except it won't be tomorrow.
Really happy with this progress.
Meanwhile I had a look under the sills to see a bit of rust at the front but nothing obvious elsewhere. The main rails look intact and I really think this is going to tidy up well.
 
Dano, I just read your reply. Absolutely, I'll have a look at your work as I haven't yet done so.
Thanks mate, I'll report back on all of that.
 
Dano,
I admire what you have done but that is not for me. If I wanted a very good 404 like that I would probably import one from France and put up with LHD.
I have so far not seen the extent of rust that yours had. I won't really know what mine has till I get it up and check it more thoroughly, but I am not of your mindset to do all of that. If it looks that bad I'll be parting it out or passing it on as a going resto project.
The area under the front screen has a couple of holes but is mostly intact for instance and will use a bit of mastic and rust converter..
But I'll be as thorough as I can within reason.
I wonder , did you ever sandblast or walnut shell blast any of the trouble spots? [ I could only read your first two pages before I had to get some fresh air.]
Have you seen Reezocar?

Used Peugeot 404

Find your Peugeot 404 used. Secure purchase, inspected vehicles and delivery in France.
www.reezocar.com www.reezocar.com
 
luthier said:
I've been through a process the last couple of days. First I managed to clean the fuel tank with oxalic acid and then a lot of high pressure washing. It isn't pristine but there's no loose stuff anymore and I'm happy to run it like that.
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Not sure if these have an inline filter or sediment trap? If not I'd be chucking an inline filter in it, even If it's just a temporary setup. Save filling your rebuilt carby up full of crap.
I cleaned an old P4 Rover tank, soaked it in vinegar for a couple of days, pressure cleaned it, soaked it in cola for a couple more days and pressure cleaned it. Gave it a couple of good rinses with stale fuel and pressure cleaned it. Got a good couple of cupfuls of rusty crap out of it. The water coming out looked good enough to drink by the end however.
Less than 100kms driving and the the car stopped, the sediment trap was blocked solid. Cleaned it and it happened twice more, then all good. Trouble is, like your tank, it was baffled so it wasn't possible to hit every surface with the pressure cleaner.
luthier said:
Still won't rev which is understandable as the vacuum advance doesn't work and with the timing light on number one the light is intermittent, and there's missing all over the place
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Not sure as I can't see it mentioned in the thread, but have you run a bit of emery tape or a file between the point contacts? I'd say they would be a bit crappy after sitting for so long.
 
This is what can get past the fine gauze pickup screen in a "clean" tank. This one's out of my DS, the PO had cleaned the tank to get it running prior to me purchasing it. Not sure what process he used, but he said he "gave it a good clean out". He was a truck driver and I did see a big steam cleaner in his shed, so? 🤷‍♂️
I've replaced this extra filter twice now, this was the first one. The Citroen normally only has the in tank pickup screen and another small brass screen in the carburettor inlet, no inline filter.
Resized_20211106_132702(1).jpeg
 
Not surprising after a big cleanout. Yeah I always run one of those filters and will check after a short while and likely fit a new one for those reasons.
Yeah though I hadn't mentioned it I have run wet and dry through the points. But as I did say when I put the strobe on it became obvious that the lead I was getting the impulse from[number 1] was only making an intermittent spark. And it's missing here there and everywhere[isn't that a Beatles song?], so obviously it needs new plugs and new leads. QED. That combined with the fact that when you suck the vacuum advance pipe it keeps sucking which it shouldn't, and doesn't move the thingy in the dizzy, so it's fucked. QED. You should be able to suck that and see that thingy move and have a vacuum held against your tongue. But when that diaphragm is buggered it no go.
And anyway I have no faith that it's properly timed as well.
So it will only be a few more little tweaks before I know how she really goes, tappet adjustment aside. To be sure to be sure I may do a comp test but the way it now goes I am confident that it's going to be a nice engine. Has good comp on the crank handle and doesn't blow smoke.
 
luthier said:
Dano,
I admire what you have done but that is not for me. If I wanted a very good 404 like that I would probably import one from France and put up with LHD.
I have so far not seen the extent of rust that yours had. I won't really know what mine has till I get it up and check it more thoroughly, but I am not of your mindset to do all of that. If it looks that bad I'll be parting it out or passing it on as a going resto project.
The area under the front screen has a couple of holes but is mostly intact for instance and will use a bit of mastic and rust converter..
But I'll be as thorough as I can within reason.
I wonder , did you ever sandblast or walnut shell blast any of the trouble spots? [ I could only read your first two pages before I had to get some fresh air.]
Have you seen Reezocar?

Used Peugeot 404

Find your Peugeot 404 used. Secure purchase, inspected vehicles and delivery in France.
www.reezocar.com www.reezocar.com
Click to expand...
Morning Dan,

It was not my original intent to go down that track either. I did, as at that time I could not find another suitable or better chassis to continue working on. Call me peDANtic, but in my own conscience I couldn't put the car back on the road knowing it was potentially unsafe. I am not saying that you are going to do that either, but my chassis was a mess. Certainly did not look too bad, when it was purchased. It wasn't until the digging around started, that the true extent of the damage became evident.
I truly hope you can dodge that bullet.

Thanks for the link. No, I hadn't seen it before. Now a favourite!

Cheers,

Dan
 
Why would one imported from france be less rusty than a local one?. There must be good ones around here that have come from places away from the sea and humid weather .I had a 404 in the early 80/s that had no apparent rust and when i sold it it went to Mildura ,a dry place with low humidity.
 
if the owner has been looking after it, by parking it under a tree out of the sun, it is likely that the plenum could be filled up with leaves allowing it to fill up with water and rusting in, in accessible places, irrespective of the climate where ever it came from ,
 
Dano said:
Morning Dan,

It was not my original intent to go down that track either. I did, as at that time I could not find another suitable or better chassis to continue working on. Call me peDANtic, but in my own conscience I couldn't put the car back on the road knowing it was potentially unsafe. I am not saying that you are going to do that either, but my chassis was a mess. Certainly did not look too bad, when it was purchased. It wasn't until the digging around started, that the true extent of the damage became evident.
I truly hope you can dodge that bullet.

Thanks for the link. No, I hadn't seen it before. Now a favourite!

Cheers,

Dan
Click to expand...
Hey Dano, I've decided not to pursue this project. Thanks to your expose of what is likely I can easily see a large waste of time there, and that's time I'd rather use making instruments. I just finished the one below and plan to start another one soon. I feel this work is more productive for me than playing with rust. Cheers.
img_6810.jpg
 
Wise decision Dan looked too far gone to me in your first pics.
Good restorable cars can still be found
 
So I'll offer it for sale for parts for $500. It cost $400 and I spent more than a week, rebuilt the carb, cleaned the fuel tank, got it kind of running, and got the clutch and brakes operating so it's almost driveable.
Any takers? I'll do a proper for sale ad in the appropriate spot later. Cheers.
 
Hi.

I am not very familier with Mandolins, but that looks like a Florentine arch top mandolin. I am sure it is very well luthiered, and it looks very nicely finished with beading and an adjustable neck as well. There looks to be quite a bit of detailed work in that scroll. Self evidently there is demand for these, as you would not have made it. I assume you also make a case as well?

What timbers have you used for the body and fret board?

In a prior life I used to play a violin cello, and almost took it up again a decade ago. But to keep up the interest, you really need to join an orchestra or band of some sort, and I couldn't commit to the time, and wasn't really that good, so didn't.

Cheers.
 
Dan,

I have been privileged to see you guitar creations up close, they are true masterpieces!
My musical cred is none existent, so what type of instrument is this and why 8 strings?

Cheers,

Dano

1650780941275.png
 
pugwash said:
if the owner has been looking after it, by parking it under a tree out of the sun, it is likely that the plenum could be filled up with leaves allowing it to fill up with water and rusting in, in accessible places, irrespective of the climate where ever it came from ,
Click to expand...
I couldn't imagine a worse treatment than parking it under a tree. If you don't have undercover space than get rid of it. Out of all the cars that were advertised in the Victor Harbour collection recently only the ones parked in a shed on the farm or in the garage at home were worth doing anything with.
If you want a good 404 find an early model, a lot less water traps around the boot area and C and G put them together better. Pretty hard to find these days though and the later mechanicals are much nicer too.
 
luthier said:
I've decided not to pursue this project.
I feel this work is more productive for me than playing with rust.
Click to expand...

That's a shame I was looking forward to following a preservation style thread.

As you said though, it takes all time, and only you know where you feel your time's best spent.👍
 
The instrument shown above is called a MandoCello.
It's a giant Mandolin strung with the same tuning as a Cello.
It has 8 strings but these are tuned as pairs that are in unison.
So the tuning goes CGDA. Same as a Cello. Thus the string pairs, known as courses, are a fifth apart.
This is the way Violins, Violas and Cellos are tuned, that is, with the same intervals.
Mandolins are also double strung in 4 courses and they are tuned the same as a violin which is GDAE but on a higher octave than the MandoCello.
This instrument is a close replica of a Gibson K4 MandoCello made by a craftsman employed by Gibson in the early 1900's.
His name is Lloyd Loar.
In those days Gibson coutesy of their genius Lloyd Loar produced orchestras of instruments, mandolin orchestras, with the highest to the lowest for the full range of pitches. I have introduced a few differences such as a different bracing pattern and I modified the end of the fingerboard as the original hung out over the soundhole. I cut it off at the hole so I could get my hand inside later to fit the pickup.
This and a Jazz guitar are the first carved instruments I've made. So I'm out on a limb to make these up to world quality.
Though I am a guitarist I had a shot at making a soundfile to demonstrate the tones that this instrument makes. Please forgive my playing as I'm not a player of this instrument and this was done at the end of a 13 hour drive and I hadn't even been handed a beer at the time. My laptop renders it extremely quiet. It needs to be listened to through a proper stereo or good computer monitors.
https://kellawayguitars.com/music/mando.mp3
 
Greenpeace, sorry to disappoint. So tell me, you do know about the French treatment of the Rainbow Warrior of course? Hence your ironic monika?
Actually as a result of that debacle I stopped driving Peugeots for a number of years in protest.
Now you've reminded me. I think apart from the indispensible 406 diesel, I am again about to go on a Peugeot free journey.
I'm looking at Honda Accords. I want to ride motorbikes, make instruments and not work on cars for the forseeable future.
Anyone interested in a manual 505 GTI on megasquirt for 3K?
 
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