The dreaded carbon build up on the intake valves...
- Thread starter 207cc Sport
- Start date
Stuey, no doubt you may well own a DI engine in the future, unless you wait for an all electric… Scalextric maybe?
Direct Injection is mostly all they are doing… refer to story earlier about the Audi R8 owner.
More data:
5 Q&A's: Intake Valve Carbon Build-up, Direct Injection & Mini Coopers
BMW Engine Carbon Cleaning | Direct Injection Engine Carbon Build Up
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIO1j5GXqdY&list=PLe65kYbT9o1Mk61ae7z8lF0f65ldg0lPB
I had smoke coming out of the zorst for the first two times, but now hardly any at all.
Looks like I may have won this battle...
Even my Pug dealership sells SA459 and use it in the workshop.
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The thing is
fuel doesn't get to clean the valves as it is injected directly in the combustion chamber
Have a look at this
1.6 THP Intake valves with combustion residues buildup - eTuners
Hey, Simon Townsend, give some of us credit for knowing the state of current engine development.
direct injection motors suffer from carbon buildup because of the emissions crap that forces oil vapours from PCV (crankcase pressure) into the intake manifold and it sticks to the hot metal on the head and intake valves.
the gunk isn't coming through the air filter its coming from the engine itself. stupid regulations due to emission standards cause the bulk of carbon problems in modern cars.
after you clean it , reroute the pvc hose to a oil catch can and run that back into the intake. you shouldn't have the problem anymore.
infact, later models of the 308, 208 and rcz came fitted with pvc valve caps to block it off, on both the back of the cam cover and the intake.
the gunk isn't coming through the air filter its coming from the engine itself. stupid regulations due to emission standards cause the bulk of carbon problems in modern cars.
after you clean it , reroute the pvc hose to a oil catch can and run that back into the intake. you shouldn't have the problem anymore.
infact, later models of the 308, 208 and rcz came fitted with pvc valve caps to block it off, on both the back of the cam cover and the intake.
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Awweeeee...
Stuey...Looks to me that the current state of generation engine development, is actually engine degeneration development!
I have a Peugeot 508 1.6 petrol engine purchased new 2013 I have used BP 98 after 55,000km engine failed, because of carbon build up Peugeot flushed the engine out four weeks ago, starting to lose power, my question is where and how can I spray a cleaner in my engine? I have looked at engine diagrams of this engine but they don't have enough detail!
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Sent from my iPad using aussiefrogs
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The black plastic box on the top of the engine behind the spark plugs & coils houses the crankcase ventilation oil separator. Most trapped oil drains back to the sump through vertical passages at the back of the engine. It has two air vent outlets.
The near side one heads straight to the turbo inlet. If you slip it off near the sensor you may see oil, but probably won't.
On the driver's side there is a hose coming off the rear, which heads into the intake manifold plenum. This one probably is the source of valve clagging. People slip it off and spray Subaru cleaner and the like in there with the engine running. It may not work if the clag is heavy. See Youtube. The engine is used by Peugeot, Citroen and Mini.
The near side one heads straight to the turbo inlet. If you slip it off near the sensor you may see oil, but probably won't.
On the driver's side there is a hose coming off the rear, which heads into the intake manifold plenum. This one probably is the source of valve clagging. People slip it off and spray Subaru cleaner and the like in there with the engine running. It may not work if the clag is heavy. See Youtube. The engine is used by Peugeot, Citroen and Mini.
Hi seasink,
For the last two years I have run a can of SA459 at every 5,000 klm oil change.
Running as sweet as.
After cleaning the intake valves DIY - refer opening post.Ongoing preventative measures. I bought 12 cans of SA459 from eBay in 2013, and run a can through at every oil change. They are all gone. Ordered two from eBay.
When engine is hot, remove the breather pipe from the rear right hand side of the cam cover (refer pic above), and spray half of the can into this hose. Wait 15 minutes and then start the engine and empty the remaining contents of the can into the same hose with the engine running. Handy to have another person here to keep the revs up a bit.
You may get a fault code, but I use my $20 Chinese cheapie to erase the code. I don't get any fault codes from this procedure now.
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For info, the "official" procedure is to remove the intake pipe at the front clamp near the intercooler and introduce the cleaner while the engine is running at 2,500rpm.
Then you stop the engine and wait for 15 mins and do this again.
After this you change the engine oil and filter and take it for a drive.
I'm also disappointed that you haven't used the term "Prince engine" once in your last post, 207cc.
Then you stop the engine and wait for 15 mins and do this again.
After this you change the engine oil and filter and take it for a drive.
I'm also disappointed that you haven't used the term "Prince engine" once in your last post, 207cc.
Well my procedure bypasses the intake sensor at the end of the post intercooler pipe. These sensors are very temperamental things, so I stay well clear of putting any solvents through them. The intake manifold air sensor, of a different design, seems to handle the strong solvents in SA459.
OK you made me say it = BMW/PSA PRINCE ENGINE. :headbang:
Being an ex-IT Professional (30 years), by putting the 'P' word assists others who search Google, etc. . .
OK you made me say it = BMW/PSA PRINCE ENGINE. :headbang:
Being an ex-IT Professional (30 years), by putting the 'P' word assists others who search Google, etc. . .
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Ref: Delfin Variable Cam Phaser (VCP)
This issue seems to plague the current new direct fuel injection petrol engines. Although I do not know the actual % of issues based on Google searches. Good available examples are the modern VWs, Peugeot BMW Prince in the BMW, Minis and PSA products and maybe others including Ecoboost. I have seen clues that engines fitted with cam phasers (computer controlled hydraulic cam advance and retard up to 70 degrees) seem to be a common configuration for these issues. Why does it not effect the direct injection Diesel engines, surely the EGR valve vents engine breather gases into the intake also? Maybe the diesel does not have cam phasers, therefore no internal leak issue. I notice the Prince engine seems to have a composite effect to the cam chain tension-er, cam phases and the variable intake valves control (where fitted) when the cam phaser transfer port seals in the forward cam journal develop an internal leak. This leak may and probably would spray a higher volume of oil mist within the engine which the EGR would carry into the intake valves. This also seems to be a issue on other BMW products (6 cylinder types). I have recently seen a two burned out, most probably owner arson, as a result of the repair cost (new cam-chains & head, labour etc). These BMWs were fitted with the VANOS and cam phasers ( the engine covers were melted from the intense heat exposing the cam system).There is infomation on changing the Mini Prince engines cam chain cassette system and seed blast cleaning of the inlet valves. I noticed a Russian YouTube showing the wear marks in the forward camshaft journal cam phaser transfer ports of a Prince engine. The first indication seems to be a cam chain rattle on startup, this as a result of low hydraulic pressure as it is internally leaking from maybe to forward cam journal transfer ports. The Ecoboost engine has a variable oil pump, maybe this gives a higher volume flow at start, but these too have developed strange sounds like air in the cam phaser. I would like to know if the recent PSA Prince engine have a redesigned and more robust sealing of the cam journal cam phaser transfer ports. EURO 6.1 requires these engine to maintain EPA performance levels over almost life of type, at least 250,000km (Euro Bosch petrol fuel injection has a design life at this figure.) How good is the current PSA Prince engines and have PSA addressed these issues?
This issue seems to plague the current new direct fuel injection petrol engines. Although I do not know the actual % of issues based on Google searches. Good available examples are the modern VWs, Peugeot BMW Prince in the BMW, Minis and PSA products and maybe others including Ecoboost. I have seen clues that engines fitted with cam phasers (computer controlled hydraulic cam advance and retard up to 70 degrees) seem to be a common configuration for these issues. Why does it not effect the direct injection Diesel engines, surely the EGR valve vents engine breather gases into the intake also? Maybe the diesel does not have cam phasers, therefore no internal leak issue. I notice the Prince engine seems to have a composite effect to the cam chain tension-er, cam phases and the variable intake valves control (where fitted) when the cam phaser transfer port seals in the forward cam journal develop an internal leak. This leak may and probably would spray a higher volume of oil mist within the engine which the EGR would carry into the intake valves. This also seems to be a issue on other BMW products (6 cylinder types). I have recently seen a two burned out, most probably owner arson, as a result of the repair cost (new cam-chains & head, labour etc). These BMWs were fitted with the VANOS and cam phasers ( the engine covers were melted from the intense heat exposing the cam system).There is infomation on changing the Mini Prince engines cam chain cassette system and seed blast cleaning of the inlet valves. I noticed a Russian YouTube showing the wear marks in the forward camshaft journal cam phaser transfer ports of a Prince engine. The first indication seems to be a cam chain rattle on startup, this as a result of low hydraulic pressure as it is internally leaking from maybe to forward cam journal transfer ports. The Ecoboost engine has a variable oil pump, maybe this gives a higher volume flow at start, but these too have developed strange sounds like air in the cam phaser. I would like to know if the recent PSA Prince engine have a redesigned and more robust sealing of the cam journal cam phaser transfer ports. EURO 6.1 requires these engine to maintain EPA performance levels over almost life of type, at least 250,000km (Euro Bosch petrol fuel injection has a design life at this figure.) How good is the current PSA Prince engines and have PSA addressed these issues?
Some interesting points there. One we can dismiss though is diesel EGR, where exhaust gases are recirculated over the maniold and valves. Any oil in a diesel combustion chamber combusts. All that is left is its ash.
Crankcase blow by in the diesels is collected by a quite large oil separator (déshuileur) mounted on the side of the engine. In the RHH motor it drains back into the oil filler pipe, with a vent tube to the intake air.
Crankcase blow by in the diesels is collected by a quite large oil separator (déshuileur) mounted on the side of the engine. In the RHH motor it drains back into the oil filler pipe, with a vent tube to the intake air.
Tizz true. 'P' engines from 2013 had big improvements on ERG handling.
This EP that PSA cleverly poached off BMW is a lemon, nice way to piss people off.French logic! The world is coming to an end so no more V6s, no more flagship 6 series (while the Koreans do)just this horrible sounding unreliable engine.They have come out with a cleaning set up, granules, vacuum cleaner attachment and air blower.its a devil of a job.Band aid fix.
Direct petrol injection is a French invention! It goes back to the first aircraft engines. German military aircraft used it in the 1939-45 war, and it appeared in mass production cars in the 1950s. The Japanese developed the system and now every auto engine maker uses it, certainly Mitsubishi, Nissan, Toyota, VAG, GM and Ford, as well as PSA and BMW. Don't blame the BMW collaboration, because PSA had earlier used the Mitsubishi injection system.
Since direct injection means no petrol washing the inlet valves, they can clag if oil vapour gets to them, no matter what make.
PS The acclaimed 3 cylinder EB series engines from PSA are also high pressure direct injected.
Since direct injection means no petrol washing the inlet valves, they can clag if oil vapour gets to them, no matter what make.
PS The acclaimed 3 cylinder EB series engines from PSA are also high pressure direct injected.
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PSA developed the 1.2 Puretech 3 cylinder engine as a downsizing replacement for the EA 1.6 Prince 4 cylinder engines but is now keeping the EA Prince in production. BMW has also developed award winning 3 cylinder engines as with Ford Ecoboost 1 Litre, and Renault 1.2 TCe and the list goes on etc. Although, BMW is in big trouble with many existing engine types (check BMW engine recalls and US lawsuits). The question is, have PSA and others addressed the carbonation of the inlet valves on these new development engines, given the engines are holding EURO 6.1 compliance? Since your comments, I'm now very interested in the new 2.0 L BlueHdi as a means of saving the world using proven reliable technology. I haven't heard of any issues with the 1.2 Puretech and it is a very nice drive. The Dakar 3008 DKR V6 diesels are going well, and probably a purpose built Peugeot Sport race engine. Cheers
Ok, I'm familiar with the EB 1.2 litre engines and the EP6 1.6 litre engine, but what's an EA 1.6 litre engine?
Sorry, finger trouble - EP6 series!