306 Theromofan

G

grahamh

New member
Tadpole
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
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Location
Gold Coast Qld
Hi, Having wanted a Pug for years I am fianlly the proud owner (well my wife is!) of a shiney 1999 306 Cabriloet:wink2: . It has one small problem:( : the main thermofan will only work when the connector is unplugged from the sensor in the water pump housing. This is fine, except the air-conditioner stops cooling when this is done. (aircon light is still on). Would really appreciate any ideas before I go to the dealer.
 
My initial guess will be that it needs a Bitron relay. (approx $140)

Try Dave at Eurotech(?) at Burleigh. Should be a better and cheaper option that your dealer unless it's under warranty.


Alan S:cheers:
 
Thanks

Thanks Alan, I'll give that a go when they come back from holidays. THis was probably a dumb time to buy a car.
 
Try properly scraping all the connecting pins on the Bitron first.
They are tinned with solder, and tend to go intermittent.
Did that on mine, and it's been good since.
Also check that both fans are spinning at the low speed when turning on the aircon.
If they don't, but one fan spins at the high speed when disconnecting the sensor, then one of the fans or relays behind the grill is faulty.

Fan map here:

http://www.peugeotlogic.com/workshop/wshtml/electric/ac306/coolfan2/fanop1.htm
 
Where's the relay?

Thanks for the advice, I'll give it a clean if I can 1) find it and 2) access it. By the way the hotlinked site is excellent.
 
Not sure about the 306, but on the Xantia, it lives inside the fuse box.

Clickable thumbnail:

 
All cleaned

The directions were perfect, opened up the engine compartment and found two Bitron relays. Contacts seemed very clean but I gave them a light going over anyway. Let's see how it goes now.
 
grahamh said:
a light going over
Click to expand...
Tried a light going over before, and it was good for only 3 days.
The Bitron contacts are tinned with solder, and need a good scrape.
I scraped them with the rough end of a broken piece of metals hacksaw blade, then swept out the solder scraps.
It's been good since, and I know that it's fixed.
 
grahamh said:
Hi, Having wanted a Pug for years I am fianlly the proud owner (well my wife is!) of a shiney 1999 306 Cabriloet:wink2: . It has one small problem:( : the main thermofan will only work when the connector is unplugged from the sensor in the water pump housing. This is fine, except the air-conditioner stops cooling when this is done. (aircon light is still on). Would really appreciate any ideas before I go to the dealer.
Click to expand...

New purchase? Warranty??

Just a thought.

Cheers
 
Still no joy

Have cleaned the Bitron relays again (thoroughly) and still no joy. By the way my 306 has two in the engine comnpartment fuse box, I hope they are what you are referring to. What else do they control, it may give me a clue as to which, if any, is broken.

At our auto electricians suggestion (and just about everyone else) I had the termofan sensor replaced with a new one. The problem persists.

BTW: How hot should the 306 run?

Alan S you may be able to help some more: I have tried Eurotech at Burleigh. There is no Dave there and they only deal with the germans (BMW Porche etc). I have also tried Eurotune at Miami but all I get is an answering service. Perhaps I should bring the car to Brisbane?
 
grahamh said:
BTW: How hot should the 306 run?
Click to expand...
my 94 306 S16 is normally never hotter then 90 degrees C although with the recent temperaturs in Sydney (ie 44C) it has been going up to about 95. Coolant levels not going down quickly is what you have to watch out for...
 
grahamh said:
the main thermofan will only work when the connector is unplugged from the sensor
Click to expand...
Does that mean that only one fan is spinning when you disconnect the sensor ?
Both fans always have to do the same thing at the same time: both stopped, both at low speed, both at high speed.
The question about how hot it should get is also a bad sign because it looks like the fans never spin at the low speed.
When disconnecting the brown sensor on the thermostat housing, both fans should spin at the high speed.
Normal temperature is just under 80ºC.
To test the fans, turn on the air conditioning, and both fans should then spin at the low speed.
What the second Bitron is about, don't know as I don't have it.
The one we're interested in has 14 pins, and the socket is blue from what I remember.
All of this is for the Xantia, but the 306 is supposed to be the same.
 
Almost everything is normal

Both fans spin at low speed. With sensor disconnected both spin at high speed.

With sensor connected on highway driving temperature runs around 80. In urban areas with lots of stop start it has got to just under 100, at which I panicked, stopped the car and disconected the sensor. Within a few minutes of driving the temp was back down to around 80.

Coolant levels are fine and coolant is clean and clear.

Photos of the relays I have been looking at are attached. Maybe they are the wrong ones? They are both the same with 5 pins
In Fuse Box.jpg

Unplugged.jpg
 
What causes the fans to spin at the low speed ?
Is it turning on the air conditioner, or the engine getting hot ?
It's not normal that the temperature would reach close to 100ºC in stop/start traffic.
The fans should come on at the low speed when you get close to 90ºC, and then you will see the temperature drop.
Next time that the temperature rises to 100, try turning on the air conditioner.
That should also drop the temperature, as the fans will be at the low speed.

The Bitrons pictured are relays only.
What we look for is a control box of clear metal, about the size of a cigarette packet, with a connector at the bottom that has 14 flat connecting pins.
 
Clogzz said:
What causes the fans to spin at the low speed ?
Is it turning on the air conditioner, or the engine getting hot ?
It's not normal that the temperature would reach close to 100ºC in stop/start traffic.
The fans should come on at the low speed when you get close to 90ºC, and then you will see the temperature drop.
Next time that the temperature rises to 100, try turning on the air conditioner.
That should also drop the temperature, as the fans will be at the low speed.
Click to expand...

That's interesting. My 98 306 XT often gets up to 100 in summer here, when doing stop/start traffic. Tends to get hotter and hotter until about there, when obviously the fans kick in (cos the temp drops fairly quickly after that).

Then climbs again. Stuart @ peugeotech said it wasn't unusual, and the car hasn't died yet.... ;) FWIW, I always drive with the A/C on.

Also, to the original poster -- if you bought this car from a dealer, I hope you aren't paying for any of these repairs. There's a statutary warranty that covers pretty much EVERYTHING.
 
Not surprised at all.
My findings are for the Xantia, but we are supposed to think that the 306 is the same.
I've even had variations in the temperature at which the fans were coming on.
It's affected by the state of the contact pins on the Bitron.
 
Firstly great thread, especially Clogzz link to peugeotlogic. Extremely informative.

With regards to engine temp. I have a 98 306 Xsi which has been running hot recently (> 90 deg C). I had the thermofan switch (Brown 2 pin connector) and the thermostat changed recently. Still running hot after this and after a return visit to mechanic/autoelec I was assured the both fans were running correctly and everything was fine. I decided to let the temp rise above 90 deg C to see if they would cut in and they did around 93 Deg C and out about 90 Deg C. (Never got to the high speed setting - 107 deg C according to the peugeotlogic link)

The info I have read on this thread would indicate that a 90 degree temp in the middle of summer is not unusual (to quote Tom Jones). I can't help but think there is still something not quite right. Could have sworn before this issue raised its head that the normal temp was between 70-80 deg C. Perhaps this was in the middle of winter! The A/C ECU has been dead for two years (another sad story) so I haven't been able to use that to keep the fans on.

Anyway if anyone thinks there is something weird still going on with the cooling system I would be happy to hear from them.

Cheers and thanks for the info.

Pugs- In Law (married to the peugeot mafia)
 
I've been through the fan caper in the last month. '94 306 XT 1.8 8 valve.
After it was found the connection of the looms to the bottom left of the radiator was cactus, a clever sparky made a new subloom, problem solved.

The fans come on at low speed when the temp hits approx. 90C, with the air on the fans are on low, when it gets to the 90C mark, with the air on, the fans move onto high speed.

After driving in 40C heat with the air on the temp. gauge did not rise above 90C. On my car that seems to be the mark where the fans happen.

Normal running of the car in summer ( I've only had the car a few weeks ) seems to be between 85 and 90 degrees C. Perhaps in winter it may be lower. Would've expected normal running temps to be above 80C anyway in any season once the engine is at operating temperature.

FWIW I've since invested in dielectric grease ( $9 for a tube the size of Superglue ! ) and coated all the terminal blocks in the engine bay and doors in an effort to prevent corrosion or poor contact.
 
Thanks for the comments Richo.

Today was a better story. Thanks to a cool change overnight the ambient temperature was 21 deg C on the way to work today(20 min, cruisey drive, 80 kph ave, 1-2 stops at lights) and the engine temp did not get above 80 C. On the way home 28 deg C ambient and the engine got up to about 83 C. Seems like I have been a bit paranoid, as the 35 C ambient and 90 C engine temp yesterday would make sense. Should have paid more attention during Heat Transfer 101 at Uni.:D

Cheers

SteveB (Married to the Peugeot mafia)
 
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