Peugeot 504 24v v-6

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Don't worry Greenblood, Luis seems to have a real infierority complex about his poogoe :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: Maybe he's sick of Citroens leaving the the old Poogoe eating dust.

Erska, do you still have the XM. I'll check the workshop manual and see if it covers the 24valve V6. The easiest way to get this motor running will be to wire in the pre-existing computers and wiring harnesses. Be warned this isn't a job for the faint hearted. Given you have the ability to get this motor to fit in the 504, I have no doubt you will get the motor running using it's injection if i can find the wiring diagrams.

Can you get hold of a petrol tank from an injected 504 The XM tank even if fitted may be to much for the 504's rear suspension.... Possibly as a real challenge you could move the hydractive XM suspension across, you then wouldn't need to worry about the weight of the fuel tank and motor :roflmao: :roflmao: she'd all simply self level. You would also then have best handling and riding 504 in the world :banana: The XM fuel tank is 80litres so may flatten the old 504 rear springs out when filled.

One easy way around the fueling maybe to fit an LPG gas research system. If you tuned the car well to run on LPG it should be cheaper to run and still quite fast (you may struggle once again with the weight of the LPG tank in the boot though).

seeya
Shane L.

It seems to me that most of the performance of the 24v motor comes from the electronics, why the hell would you want to get rid of it?
If you want to live in the past just get a 12 valve engine and muck around with that, not a rare 24v.
I wouldn't have thought an advanced car such as an XM would have had an overweight fuel tank.
Graham

 

[DoubleChevron]

It seems to me that most of the performance of the 24v motor comes from the electronics, why the hell would you want to get rid of it?
If you want to live in the past just get a 12 valve engine and muck around with that, not a rare 24v.
I wouldn't have thought an advanced car such as an XM would have had an overweight fuel tank.
Graham

The XM doesn't have a heavy petrol tank .... It's the amount of petrol it holds that makes it heavy !!!

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

The XM doesn't have a heavy petrol tank .... It's the amount of petrol it holds that makes it heavy !!!

seeya,
Shane L.

Easy fixed, don't fill it up!
Seriously though it wouldn't fit the tailor made space next to the spare wheel.
Graham

 

[GreenBlood]

..very bad joke warning!!

Easy fixed, don't fill it up!
Seriously though it wouldn't fit the tailor made space next to the spare wheel.
Graham

...or use lighter fuel, get it lighter... you know the stuff they put in lighters

Cheers
Chris

 

[OddFireV6]

Erska
There are at least two Peugeots now in Australia retrofitted with the 24 Valve PRVs, a 504 cabriolet and a 505 sedan and both use programmable Fuel Injection and provide serious performance and rev happily to 7000, both are also normally aspirated. The 505 gets 210 horsepower at the wheels, it will do 72 kph in first and 117 in second gear with a 3.3:1 diff. This car has Autronic Fuel Injection.

I would tend to advise against carburettors or a supercharger or turbos for this engine, it would be a bit of a waste really. We have seen that 2850cc 12 valve PRVs can be turboed to power well above that at 240 BHP at the wheels and I can tell you from personal experience this is plenty. To run an engine like this on gas would be non optimal and have less power than petrol unless you used forced induction or increase the compression ratio where LP gases’ octane rating could be exploited.

Those questioning a 504s ability to handle speed are perhaps talking through their hats or allegedly trying to be funny, I and a few others regularly compete in 504s at sprint meetings at places like Philip Island and Sandown raceways which you may have heard of, I have made a few changes 604 brakes revised springs 505 lower control arms, the motor is as per the avatar.

 

[Louis]

Hey Louis, that's a little harsh yeah?

Possibly on the harsher side of things, but DoubleChevron persistently comes into this forum making inflamatory and derogatory comments about Peugeot vehicles that are frankly infactual. This becomes very tiresome and repetitive as he generally refuses to even back up or later acknowledge these rediculous claims. Whilst I have no problem with his advice it often appears an afterthought simply to justify his post.

I would ask how accepted it would be to go into the Citroen forum to ridicule and condemn the vehicles discussed?

I have no qualms with a bit of light hearted rivalry between marques but DoubleChevron displays an inability to reason logically and a child-like obsession with abusing the Peugeot marque in terms of this type of 'rivalry' in question. Ultimately I feel personally he lowers the quality of the Peugeot forum with his incessant abuse and ridicule of the vehicles discussed here.

DoubleChevron: Would you care to spell my name correctly as I do with yours. I have no inferiority complex with my Peugeot or any Peugeot vehicle, they have their strengths and their weaknesses like any marque. There's no such thing as the perfect car and this holds true for any marque, be it Peugeot, Citroen or even Ferrari. I've never had a Citroen 'leave me in it's dust' and given the vast majority of Citroens on the road utilise Peugeot motors I doubt one ever will.

 

[Erska]

Erska
There are at least two Peugeots now in Australia retrofitted with the 24 Valve PRVs, a 504 cabriolet and a 505 sedan and both use programmable Fuel Injection and provide serious performance and rev happily to 7000, both are also normally aspirated. The 505 gets 210 horsepower at the wheels, it will do 72 kph in first and 117 in second gear with a 3.3:1 diff. This car has Autronic Fuel Injection.


Those questioning a 504s ability to handle speed are perhaps talking through their hats or allegedly trying to be funny, I and a few others regularly compete in 504s at sprint meetings at places like Philip Island and Sandown raceways which you may have heard of, I have made a few changes 604 brakes revised springs 505 lower control arms, the motor is as per the avatar.

Really?
That is a happily surprise to me

Do you have some pics of those cars?
I thought some programmable fuel injection too,but in here they cost about 2000-3000€uros
But if they give ~30hp(?) over stock,then it is must bargain

I have K - 9X35 = 3.889 Diff from 505.

Do you know how much ZPJ4 stock gives horsepowers at the rear wheels?

Is this pic related somehow on those meetings?
http://www.504.org/ImagesSemaine/15_AustLine_GB.htm

By the way,those guys who has 24v prv,do they have changed the lower part of the block from older PRV's to ZPJ4?

 

[DoubleChevron]

Aftermarket injection systems are quite cheap now as you can build you own.... Do some in depth reading on the Megasquirt system. In a similar way to Linux it's an open source injection sytem.

http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html

I'm sure you'll find this extremelly intersting ... I do !!!! I want to build one .... really I do :banana: :banana:

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[Erska]

I know megasquirt,but I am still thinking other programs...

Hey,how about Piggy Pack SMT 7?
http://www.perfectpower.com/

That would be much more easier to connect

 

[DoubleChevron]

I know megasquirt,but I am still thinking other programs...

Hey,how about Piggy Pack SMT 7?
http://www.perfectpower.com/

That would be much more easier to connect

The problem with the piggyback approach is you must first get the engine running on it's original ECU and harness.... Once it's running on this, I can't see much gain in adding a piggyback ECU....

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

The problem with the piggyback approach is you must first get the engine running on it's original ECU and harness.... Once it's running on this, I can't see much gain in adding a piggyback ECU....

seeya,
Shane L.

Also with the Megasquirt you can start from scratch and don't have to worry about working out the original wiring loom.
The Megasquirt I have had experince with is a simple replacement for the L- Jetronic and earlier K-Jectronic or carby systems.
Recently. however, there have been developed more advanced systems including ignition (which you would need) that Megasquirt and its users have developed which could replace the advanced (compared to L-Jetronic) Fenix system fitted to your engine.
Graham

 

[OddFireV6]

Erska

If you go the pccv.org website and look at the ‘Video from Winton 2003’ you will see and hear my 504 at this track although this is before I fitted the IDA Weber carbs but still with a warm 2850cc oddfire. The link to the video is right under the club banner where a series of links are scrolling. In fact if you look though the photo albums you will see range of old Peugeots still actively used in motorsport. The Victorian Peugeot Club is very active in motor sport we do rallies, sprints, hill climbs, motorkhana’s etc.

You have probably come to this view yourself anyway but Graham is not only knowledgeable in the area of fuel injection but he has actually done conversions himself a few times and so genuinely knows what he is talking about.

The link you have has some cars that belong to friends of mine but my car does not seem to be there, this does not appear to be a motor sport event.

The debate about comparing ‘at the wheel horsepower’ to ‘flywheel horsepower’ is complex but my view is based on my personal dyno experience and discussions with the designer of the ‘Dyno Dynamics’ dynamometers and others. It’s a fair approximation to say that between 1/3 and ¼ of the power is lost in the drive train. So a 200 horsepower 24V is probably 150 or so at the wheels. If you search AF for my posts you will see some examples of dyno sheets for PRVs, the 505 Peugeot that had 178Kw at the wheels will easily hold a 300kw Holden (GM) V8, this happened at the Philip Island raceway during a sprint meeting competition along the main straight, the Peugeot is lighter of course.

In addition to my 504 there is a 4 litre Leyland V8 504, and a few hot 2 litre engines variously with injection or multi webers etc, a number of us are in fact competing at Sandown Raceway this weekend.

To fit a 24V PRV to a RWD Peugeot does require the lower casing and sump from RWD Peugeot or Volvo engine, this is no big deal it bolts up.

Note the photos are either going into or coming out of Honda Hairpin, Philip Island

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

"The link you have has some cars that belong to friends of mine but my car does not seem to be there, this does not appear to be a motor sport event".

The photo is of the 504 30th anniversary weekend at Wagga in 1998.
Note Zac Edward's 504 with the over the top paint job, he had a set of clothes just as way out to go with it!
Graham

 

[Erska]

Oddfire: Really nice!
Your 504 seemed going very fast on those clips but the engine sound is not the same on those videos as in real life right?

If you say my zpj4 got 150 wheel horsepower,how in the hell some 505 got 210hp at the wheels only with better exhaust,air intake and autronic?

I maybe buy an Autronic too, I asked autronic smc prices in here and they said that it costs 2100€. They give installation for free becouse it will be their first Peugeot.

And I have changed Volvo B27E lower case and sump on my zpj4.
Before: http://kivialho.1g.fi/kuvat/PRV6/IM0003355.JPG/full
Now: http://kivialho.1g.fi/kuvat/PRV6/IM000346.JPG/full
See the difference...

Or did you mean something else?

 

[OddFireV6]

Erska

The 504 does sound good particularly with the bark of the two 40mm IDA 3C Webers, its the kind of noise though that can be annoying if you drove the car every day, but with a helmet on, flat out at a sport event its fantastic.

Yes we agree on the sump arrangement, what you have done is identical to those in Australia.

The 505 V6 24V I discuss has been the subject of some expensive development, there has been some optimisation, head porting, it was tuned with an oxygen sensor for every cylinder, Autronic is a world leading injection system and this car had some dyno time to get it perfect. The airbox and induction system was constructed from carbon fibre and the large bore purpose made extractors are ceramic coated. The attention to detial in this cars design, assembly and the quality of the materials is significant.

 

[Aln]

The 504 Cab with 24V V6 lives two streets from me. He has lightened the flywheel and ported the heads, extractors etc, and has done a very nice job of it. I don't know what horsepower, but he uses a Motec, an Australian built progammable computer. All of our V8 Supercar race cars use them.

A Motec is around 1000 Euros in your money here, with an Autronic a little cheaper. I find the Motec easier to tune, but have not touched an Autronic in 6 years and they may have improved.

 

[Erska]

Oddfire: I believe you,I am so envious to you becouse my project is only in half way.

What do you suggest to me with that ba10/4 gearbox,504 original cardan shaft and 505 lsd diff? I dont think that they will handle ZPJ4 power with little modifications. What did you do with your power transmission on your twinturbo 505?

alan moore: Do you have a camera? Please take some photos of that 504 cab,and engine espcially. That would be superr.

Lightened flywheel? How could be that possible? I cant see any spot that can be lightened...

 

[OddFireV6]

Alan
what a thinking mans collection of cars and bikes you have, fantastic! , I must admit to having a fast German car in my garage also.

Erska
Its great to be conversing with someone who is actually doing the work and not just talking about it, I look forward to the completion of your project.

My 505 has a heavily modified and strengthened 604 three speed auto with manual control and the rest is standard 505 GTI drive train, it takes much punishment and has given no problems, unlike the pistons I cracked with over boosting before I fitted the intercooler. If you search this forum for ‘Evenfire twin turbo’ you can get more details.

The BA10/4 or 5 will handle the power unless you are too brutal, the 178Kw 505 still uses this box and it works OK. The most common failure mode of well maintained BA 10s is that a synchro centraliser spring may break and then teeth get broken etc. The BA10/4 in fact seems to be a little more reliable that the 5 speed. For road use you would be unlucky to break something in the standard drive train.

As Alan will no doubt attest the 24V 504 cabriolet was, like the 24V 505, built by someone who knows what they are doing on both a theoretical and practical level and pays great attention to detail. Here is a few photos of it to save Alan digging some up.

 

[Erska]

You dont even know how happy I am for your posts in this topic.

In Finnish Peugeot forums they only talk about new peugeots and they dont know nothing about old Peugeots(except Toni Lindroos) or old Peugeot engines .

So my power transmisson is reliable if I dont play with them

Oh,I allmost got a heart attack of those pictures you showed .

Unbelievable!

It is so clean and simple looking engine bay.

But I have the same problem as this 505 guy has,I have to turn my fuel injection "around",like 180degrees. Becouse my air intake is against the fireplate of engine bay(?).

But how I do it? I looked that injection and it seems it is not identical for the other side,or is it? And then I have to do something on those injection jets,if i turn the injection around, what happens to those injection orders?

 

[Toni Lindroos]

In Finnish Peugeot forums they only talk about new peugeots and they dont know nothing about old Peugeots(except Toni Lindroos) or old Peugeot engines .

Well, I don't know that much about 504/505/604 but I'll try to learn more using the resources I have. ;-) Most Finnish 504 hobbyists probably just don't use forums but I'm sure there are much knowledge.