New Citroen C5 Owner

Yesterday I went for a nice long drive to Nebo and Mt Britton. Headed out on the highway and did about 40K tried out cruise control and all well. Then the dreaded beep and the warning "Engine Management System Faulty". ESP and service lights on and engine in slow mode.
Stopped and turned off and on again. Fixed it but service light on for a while but then happened again and each time came up with "ESP and ASL System Faulty". I kept going to Nebo, had lunch then to Mt Britton and back to Mackay. Each time I turned off it cleared it although service light stayed on. As the day progressed the warning became more frequent until it was happening as soon as the car was started so I drove to 80-100km back in slow mode most of the time (much to the disgust of traffic behind me). Also filled with fuel again but that made no difference.

This morning the service light was still on and got the "engine management system faulty" one but after the 2nd or 3rd start the service light went out and it's back to normal. Does indeed seem related to highway speeds and I suspect is related to the ESP, possibly a faulty wheel senser as suggested.
I guess I'll have to book it in somewhere who has the diagnostic equipment and take it for a highway drive early in the morning to ensure the fault is there when I take it.

Thanks for that info Rossie. Hopefully I wont have to drive to Tville or Rocky to get this sorted!
 
456eec said:
Yesterday I went for a nice long drive to Nebo and Mt Britton. Headed out on the highway and did about 40K tried out cruise control and all well. Then the dreaded beep and the warning "Engine Management System Faulty". ESP and service lights on and engine in slow mode.
Stopped and turned off and on again. Fixed it but service light on for a while but then happened again and each time came up with "ESP and ASL System Faulty". I kept going to Nebo, had lunch then to Mt Britton and back to Mackay. Each time I turned off it cleared it although service light stayed on. As the day progressed the warning became more frequent until it was happening as soon as the car was started so I drove to 80-100km back in slow mode most of the time (much to the disgust of traffic behind me). Also filled with fuel again but that made no difference.

This morning the service light was still on and got the "engine management system faulty" one but after the 2nd or 3rd start the service light went out and it's back to normal. Does indeed seem related to highway speeds and I suspect is related to the ESP, possibly a faulty wheel senser as suggested.
I guess I'll have to book it in somewhere who has the diagnostic equipment and take it for a highway drive early in the morning to ensure the fault is there when I take it.

Thanks for that info Rossie. Hopefully I wont have to drive to Tville or Rocky to get this sorted!
Click to expand...


My 2009 C5 2.0 HDI was doing the same (except for speed limiting) when on country runs, usually when going through a bend. It also stopped the cruise control from being able to operate. Replacement of the brake switch fixed it.

Regards, David
 
After my initial posts and some research I have found that the car is actually a 2.2l from the VIN after studying this site. It was advertised as a 2.0 but the dealer obviously didnt know. I checked the tyre pressures all at 32psi. I've just noticed the tyre guide says 36 so I'll put a bit more in just in case that's causing a problem.

Last weekend drove to the gemfields about 800km return. Car was in limp mode 95% of the time. Wasn't too bad ad quite flat and not much traffic so we could cruise on 100 or so but 0-100 accelleration is about 45sec and the slightest hill slowed us down. Still got great fuel economy though. When we came into Emerald we stopped at an auto elec. while warnings are up. Bit of a Dad N Dave operation but they did have an analyser which showed EGR valve, MAF senser, turbo boost sensor and 2 other faults. They had to turn off to connect it and then the EGR warning was then not showing so I'm not sure if they were detecting the actual faults or not.

My wife found a nice sapphire so that made it worth it. Left it with a cutter so we're keen to see what we get back. Now I'll have to spring for a ring to put it in!

When I got back I rang the head tech at Motorco in Townsville who said we'd need to bring it up and leave it there. They may even need to send codes to France for analysis. As it's under warranty I just need to make sure it's sorted before the warranty runs out.
 
456eec said:
After my initial posts and some research I have found that the car is actually a 2.2l from the VIN after studying this site. It was advertised as a 2.0 but the dealer obviously didnt know. I checked the tyre pressures all at 32psi. I've just noticed the tyre guide says 36 so I'll put a bit more in just in case that's causing a problem.

Last weekend drove to the gemfields about 800km return. Car was in limp mode 95% of the time. Wasn't too bad ad quite flat and not much traffic so we could cruise on 100 or so but 0-100 accelleration is about 45sec and the slightest hill slowed us down. Still got great fuel economy though. When we came into Emerald we stopped at an auto elec. while warnings are up. Bit of a Dad N Dave operation but they did have an analyser which showed EGR valve, MAF senser, turbo boost sensor and 2 other faults. They had to turn off to connect it and then the EGR warning was then not showing so I'm not sure if they were detecting the actual faults or not.

My wife found a nice sapphire so that made it worth it. Left it with a cutter so we're keen to see what we get back. Now I'll have to spring for a ring to put it in!

When I got back I rang the head tech at Motorco in Townsville who said we'd need to bring it up and leave it there. They may even need to send codes to France for analysis. As it's under warranty I just need to make sure it's sorted before the warranty runs out.
Click to expand...


It is so easy to check the MAF. It caused numerous faults on my old C5, similar to what you describe. When removed look down the barrel and you will see a transducer? then behind that there are 4 terminals that should have 2 ceramic wires bridging them. If the wires are complete (not broken) there is a MAF cleaning aerosol that you can buy. If you look up "MAF cleaning on u Tube there are many examples on how it is done. New OEM, MAF sensors are $600 to $700. Chinese approx $70 to $100. We were lucky and got a near new second hand one. The change in the car is remarkable. These components are probably common to Peugeot and others who use this motor. Good luck Allan. (I posted something on this yesterday. See MAF sensor)
 
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OK, so being a 2.2, it's either 4 or 6 speed gearbox, but should be the 6 speed if it's a 2007 build. VIN should have 4HS in it and it's the twin turbo model. Yes?
My earlier comments were for the 2.0 engine in cars with RHR in the VIN, so most won't apply.
There was another recent thread on a similar 2.2 twin turbo 6 speed with a similar problem and thought to be a turbo issue, so perhaps read that. I'd think start with the brake switch because it's cheap and easy to change. Look for oil in the elctronics inside the control box of the air mixer unit down the front of the engine on the intake. A bad vacuum solenoid is also a possibility.
 
What colour is this 2.2 TT wagon? This is not just an idle question. I sold a blue (icelandic grey) one recently, though the mileage does not match. Not a lot of 2.2TT wagons were imported. If yours is blue, we should compare VIN numbers.

Rossie.
 
Thanks for those responses.
Yes David it is a 4HS in the VIN. I only realised when I read one of your previous posts and checked my VIN. Although it was delivered 4/07 it is actually a 2006 build. I assume its a 4 speed as has only 4 speeds marked on the dash indicator.
Thanks for all that information Allan. I will have a look at that and familiarise myself with it.
Because the car is under warranty I drove (limped!) it to Motorco in Townsville yesterday and left it there. I need to get it sorted ASAP so I am confident it is fixed when the warranty expires. Under the warranty law the warranty is extended for any time it is at the repairers. I'm just hoping it will be sorted when I get it back and the bill will be paid by the car dealer.

I'll let you know the outcome. We really like the car otherwise. We used the suspension raising mode when we were in the gem fields and had to negotiate some washouts and it didn't bottom out. The rides great, the motor is powerful , it's quiet on the road, the seats are comfortable, the climate control is great ad we love the window that opens separate to the tailgate. Just hoping this problem will be all sorted out. Once it's out of warranty I'll be more likely to try to sort out problems and do some jobs myself.
 
Being the 2.2 twin turbo, it has the 6 speed gearbox.
 
Alternatively, the number of gear ratios should listed vertically on the instrument cluster (for C5 models built between 2001 - 2008).
 
Rossie it's a burgundy red.
I'm still not sure then David. As Diesel says on the instrument panel it only lists 4 speeds vertically.
VIN is VF7RE4HXE*********.

I've just noticed it's HX not HS but I thought the 2.0 ones are RHR? So now I'm not sure what engine & gearbox I have!

Thanks!
Justin
 
456eec said:
Rossie it's a burgundy red.
I'm still not sure then David. As Diesel says on the instrument panel it only lists 4 speeds vertically.
VIN is VF7RE4HXE*********.

I've just noticed it's HX not HS but I thought the 2.0 ones are RHR? So now I'm not sure what engine & gearbox I have!

Thanks!
Justin
Click to expand...
I'm reasonably sure a 4HXE is a 2.2 HDi (ie. DW12TED4) with a ZF 4HP20 4 speed auto.
 
RHS / RHZ
2.0 HDi engine (DW10ATED4) / AL4 gearbox

RHR
2.0 HDi engine (DW10BTED4) / Aisin TF-80SC gearbox (AM6)

RHH
2.0 HDi engine (DW10CTED4) / Aisin TF-80SC gearbox (AM6)

...

4HX / 4HZ
2.2 HDi engine (DW12TED4) / ZF 4HP20 gearbox

4HR / 4HS
2.2 HDi engine (DW12BTED4) / Aisin TF-80SC gearbox (AM6)

4HL
2.2 HDi engine (DW12C) / Aisin TF-80SC gearbox (AM6)
 
The VIN is the safest way to work out what you have. It can be confusing because the C5 until 2008 was sold here with 4 HDi drivetrains, being 2.0 and 2.2 engines. Dealers get it wrong too and you can end up with a bargain or pay over the odds if a car is not properly described.

So, it's actually a 2.2 single turbo DW12 with the 4 speed 4HP20 gearbox. Look for diesel in the engine harness and whatever is connected to it. Sometimes, it can enter via the filter and travel to all connected parts. Removing the seal on the harness plug at the filter helps with prevention. If you search the forum you should find a few cases where that sort of problem was diagnosed and fixed by replacing the engine slave/fuse box and a few other components. You also need to check for coolant entering the heat exchanger, which can eventually be drawn into the engine if enough seeps in. Bypassing the exchanger with a section of heater hose would work. Be careful if you pressure test the cooling system and the exchanger turns out to be leaking as that's where the coolant will go and when you kick it over next ... new engine possibly required. There are obviously other possible problems like the brake switch, EGR valve and maybe even the turbo vane actuator.
 
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Here's an update.
The mechanics found multiple faults which they cleared then tried to get it to fault but it wouldn't. A mechanic who lived out of town started driving it home every day and eventually after several days it faulted and went to limp at about 90k on the way to work. They then detected 2 faults one to do with EGR and one the turbo. As they don't see that many 2.2 twin turbos they didn't have any experience and they have sent the faults to Citroen. I'm waiting to hear back but will be getting the car on the 21st regardless of whether it is fixed as I need it that week.
 
Search the web for MAF sensor fault symptoms on turbo diesels. Also look up the same on U tube. A very common cause of faults!

I am sorry to labour this point but it has resolved the symptoms you describe on my old car. Allan
 
Thanks for that Allan,
I have taken it on board and read your threads as well as seeing mention of it on other forums. If it is common presumably the mechanics will know about it and check it. I didn't want to do anything myself at this stage as the car is under warranty and pulling it apart myself is likely to void that. I also need it sorted ASAP before the warranty expires.
Assuming they sort the problem I will keep it in mind for the future. I'll keep you posted.

Regards
Justin
 
Hi Justin,
Make sure it is fixed and you ar e not fobbed off. I have a 2.2 (single turbo) which had the same thing and same error messages. It eventually turned out to be the electronic accelerator pedal. However, it eventually listed this as a fault when the dealer read it after several goes. There have been a number of these cars with peculiar faults that resulted in symptoms like yours. Not many of them were fixed to the satisfaction of the owners, but as they worked for a while, the dealer said they had fixed them. Good luck. Erik
 
OK here's an update for those who are interested.
I took the car to Motorco Townsville. They reloaded the software, changed the EGR valve and a few other unspecified things without success and had it for 3 weeks. I should note that they said they spent 8 hours on it in that time but didn't charge me anything as hadn't fixed it.
I then took it back to the dealer in Brisbane. We had already found that he was very dodgy and he had it for 5 weeks. The fault was still present when we got it back but we didn't trust him to have it any further. Under the law we should have been able to return it for a full refund but he refused. We were looking at legal action but the car is so nice in all other respects that I decided that I would sort it out myself. I'm not sure if he's already done something to it as it no longer seems as powerful as when we got it so we'll have to get that checked out in case he's bodged something to try to stop the fault.
Erik I suspect the accelerator in mine after reading your posts and for the following reasons.
From the time we got the car, I can never drive it at highway speed for more than 10-15 minutes before it faults. Once it does, it will do so again immediately if I stop then start again at highway speed. It will only correct if I go back to town speed.
My wife can drive it for long periods without it faulting. She drove Mackay to Gin Gin before it faulted. When she stopped for a while then started again she drove to the Sunnie Coast without faulting. This suggests it has something to do with foot size (accellerator mechanism?) or driver weight (hydractive suspension?). My 23 year old stepson finds it faults as often as I do.
Any one have a second hand accellerator mechanism I can buy to try that or suggestions on how to check it?

David, I just checked back on your post where you mentioned replacing the fuse box. According to the dealer, that was the next thing they were going to do. I'll also keep that in mind. I was thinking of replacing the accellerator first as this seems the most likely. I'll also keep the brake switch in mind.

I haven't posted the details of the dodgy dealer for people to be wary of as I'm not sure of the forum rules. He does seem to have a few Citroens.

Justin
 
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